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Discussion concerning awareness/strategy.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Discussion concerning awareness/strategy.

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
02.16.2013 , 04:36 PM | #1
What strategies do you think could be implemented to solve some predicaments that so many teams find themselves in on Civil Wars?

You are team A.
You are playing against team B.

Situation #1

Team B has Grass Node and Snow Node.
Team A has Mid Node.

Ok, you have the set up part of the set up. Lets see if we can apply some logic to situation #1 as I further enhance the set up.

Team B has 4 people guarding Snow Node, and 4 people guarding Grass Node.

Team A left 2 people to guard Mid Node, and has sent 6 people to attack the Grass Node.



What do you think the 6 people who went to attack Grass Node should be aware in their plight to take Grass Node? Lets us assume that their goal is to take Grass Node; and they are not focused on doing random Damage/Healing/Protection in order to make their stats super shiny. What things should they be aware of?

The first thing they should be aware of is that if they kill someone on Team A's team they will be able to respawn and take the shuttle right back down to the Grass Node in a matter of about 12 seconds. This much is obvious, yet teams still try to take the Grass/Snow Nodes by killing Defenders ONE AT A TIME. This is bad and I'll tell you why.

The situation is that it is 6v4, in Team A's favor. Instead of focus targeting down individual Defenders one at a time, why not try to get all Defenders low, and once and wipe them all as close to successive nature as possible? This will give them no chance to take the speeder back down in time to stop the cap. STOP killing Defenders one at a time because you will NEVER take a side node doing that. Even if it were 8v4, Team A will still not be able to take the node if the 4 Defenders are competent players.

If you do not understand this situation I will simply it further.


Situation #2

Team A has the Mid Node.
Team B has the Grass Node and Snow Node.

Team B has 6 people defending Grass Node because Team A has 4 Attackers there.
Team A has 2 other people guarding Mid Node.
The other 2 people on Team A are attacking Snow Node.
The other 2 people on Team B are defending Snow Node.

At this point there is a 6v4 going on at Grass Node in favor of team B.
At this point there is also a 2v2 going on at Snow Node.

Lets focus on the 2v2 that is occurring at Snow Node.

Team A has 2 very powerful players Snow Node. Team B has 2 weak players at Snow Node. It is apparent that Team A can kill Team B at the Snow Node.

Team A should not kill one Team B defender at a time. Team A should get both Team B Defenders low on health so they can both be killed in as close proximity as possible. This will allow Team A to cap Snow Node because both Defenders will be taking the shuttle back simultaneously and will not be able to stop the cap.

But instead, most 2v2s will flow in the way that one team will be able to kill one of the other guys so it will become a 2v1. If it is a 2v1 in favor of the attacking team, it will soon not be in their favor. Because the surviving defender will stay alive long enough, because his health isn't low, and the defender that died will be back in the battle in a matter of ~12 seconds and will be full health and he'll easily stop the cap. If is a 2v1 in favor of the defenders then obviously the situation is a wash and the remaining attacker will be killed with no chance to cap the node.

So this applies to larger scale battles than 2v2's, as I set up earlier.

So please understand this logic and be aware that if you are not killing Defenders in close proximity to each other you are doing your team an extreme disfavor and you will not be able to cap the node against skilled players.







I also need to point out the fact that this community needs to be more aware in terms of stopping Defenders from rotating. Think back to the Situation #1

Team A has applies the logic I mentioned earlier and kills all four of Team B's Defenders in close proximity. Before Team A has wiped out Team B's Defenders, SOMEONE, JUST ONE PERSON, from Team A that is attacking the Grass Node needs to have the awareness to know that his teammates can handle whats going on without him, and head towards bottom mid in order to CC/Slow/immobilize any Defenders that are rotating from Snow Node.

^ This point could be elaborated on much further and pointed out in many more situations that involve sending someone to stall a team that has over rotated/overloaded to one side of the map, etc. This point will be elaborated on in future threads in much more detail because it is very important.



Applying these strategies will not increase your amount of Damage/Protection/Healing/Kills. Applying these strategies will not get you noticed by people who judge a player by the stats they put up on the scoreboard.

Applying these strategies will make you a better player. Applying these strategies will help you win games.

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.16.2013 , 05:11 PM | #2
arrrrgh its like calculus and physics rolled into one.

If team A sends 6 to grass leaving mid, usually team B will send 2 from snow leaving 2 at snow. If, one of the 2 from Team A is good enough at 2v1 or knows how to put applied pressure on Team B by attacking snow, (if they kill one person and cc the other to continue to fight) then Team B must respond by sending someone from grass to snow.

If team A get's wiped out at grass then the fight and pressure is already on at snow, causing a swap roughly 10-15 secs without /stuck. Thus is Team A is fast enough to hit snow they can use that delay time to capture snow if one of their team heads to the tunnel and forcing people to slow(cc, mez whatever).

It requires High skill at applied pressure, usually a stealth is best, because they can initiate the fight and make people panic. People may counter this strat by saying that 1 person can't 2v1 or whatever, but sometimes it's not the win in a 2v1 fight that matters.

As a Operative I have a golden rule for pvping anyways.

Make your opponents blow their cooldowns on you so your teammate can finish the kill if need be.

my head hurts with your theoretical situation and trying to follow the team A and B scenario.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
02.16.2013 , 05:23 PM | #3
Calulus and Phyiscs FTW bro (I'm a Chemical Engineering major I love that ****.)

There are an impossible amount of situations. I just made those situations to help convey a point. It is much easier to show what is going on through a video but I do not have those capabilities at the moment.

The point I am trying to convey is that if you try to kill Defenders one at a time at the side nodes on Civil War you will not likely ever get the cap since they can just shuttle back within ~12 seconds.

You should attempt to kill the Defenders at the same time. So if there is a 3v3 going on at Snow Node and you walk into the battle to make it a 4v3. (You are an Attacker at this point because the other team has the node.) Instead of going up to the Defender with the lowest amount of health you should attack the Defender that has the most amount of health. This will give your team a better chance to take the node because your team will kill all 3 Defenders more or less at the same time. Versus if you would have initially went up and killed the guy with the lowest amount of health and then your team would have focused another Defender and then oh ****, the first guy you killed is back in the battle again before you know it. Do you see the point I am trying to convey?

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
02.16.2013 , 05:25 PM | #4
The PERFECT scenario to work towards is to WIPE the Defenders all at once.

The WORST scenario is killing each Defender one at a time.
^ this is what happens every match I play in.

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.16.2013 , 05:26 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Polymerize View Post
Calulus and Phyiscs FTW bro (I'm a Chemical Engineering major I love that ****.)

There are an impossible amount of situations. I just made those situations to help convey a point. It is much easier to show what is going on through a video but I do not have those capabilities at the moment.

The point I am trying to convey is that if you try to kill Defenders one at a time at the side nodes on Civil War you will not likely ever get the cap since they can just shuttle back within ~12 seconds.

You should attempt to kill the Defenders at the same time. So if there is a 3v3 going on at Snow Node and you walk into the battle to make it a 4v3. (You are an Attacker at this point because the other team has the node.) Instead of going up to the Defender with the lowest amount of health you should attack the Defender that has the most amount of health. This will give your team a better chance to take the node because your team will kill all 3 Defenders more or less at the same time. Versus if you would have initially went up and killed the guy with the lowest amount of health and then your team would have focused another Defender and then oh ****, the first guy you killed is back in the battle again before you know it. Do you see the point I am trying to convey?
Same here for the major. ( except I am focused on Chemical Kinetics and thermodynamics.) I understand calculus, but physics just... remains physics to me. That is my brother's field not mine.)

I do understand the point. I was offering a counter strat as a addendum for people to be Aware of the fight and how people respond. This is my current and favorite strat. Use your team as a diversion to obtain a goal. Even if they all die, your goal remains the same. Find the weak point and dig a knife in there and twist.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
02.16.2013 , 05:32 PM | #6
Yeah I completely understand the scenario you bring up. Your scenario works like a freaking CHARM if your team does this...

If the remaining people on your team who are alive at Grass have the awareness that they are not going to be able to wipe the other team since it is like a 2v6 (LOL, you're be surprised.), and they stop trying to DPS and kill the other team... and they start to stall the Defenders at Grass Node from rotating by CC/slows.... then your team will cap Snow Node every time. To make another point, if your teammates that are in a 2v6 at Grass Node actually do end up killing a Defender at Grass Node is its AWFUL for your team because that same Defender they killed just spawned and took the shuttle to help defend the Snow Node.

I hope all readers can understand this logic.

Please do more than just read the thread, give some feedback.

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.16.2013 , 05:35 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Polymerize View Post
Yeah I completely understand the scenario you bring up. Your scenario works like a freaking CHARM if your team does this...

If the remaining people on your team who are alive at Grass have the awareness that they are not going to be able to wipe the other team since it is like a 2v6 (LOL, you're be surprised.), and they stop trying to DPS and kill the other team... and they start to stall the Defenders at Grass Node from rotating by CC/slows.... then your team will cap Snow Node every time. To make another point, if your teammates that are in a 2v6 at Grass Node actually do end up killing a Defender at Grass Node is its AWFUL for your team because that same Defender they killed just spawned and took the shuttle to help defend the Snow Node.

I hope all readers can understand this logic.



Please do more than just read the thread, give some feedback.
And that is the problem. If your team can pull off being a diversion. Sometimes I miss Meow Mix, I'd say go big and they'd go big for me. Best damn diversion team I ever worked with.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
02.16.2013 , 06:56 PM | #8
The lack of interest in debating/talking about strategy/awareness from this community appalls me. I must say though, it correlates well with this community's lack of skill/strategy/awareness in PUGGED and RATED matches. Consistency at its finest.

Polymerize's Avatar


Polymerize
02.16.2013 , 08:54 PM | #9
Bump.

Kurvv's Avatar


Kurvv
02.16.2013 , 09:08 PM | #10
I only read situation A so I'll respond to that one. You send 6 to visibly attack 1 side node, but on the way have 2 stealthers stealth up and do a 180 for the other node. With any luck defenders call out 6 incs, the opponent sends 2 from one side to reinforce, and the stealthers (assuming theyre competent) shred the 2 at the other node with proper use of cc and focus.

That being said, I have no idea if that would apply to ranked. I'm not good enough with hybrid shadow and no one wants infil on their team so I very rarely play ranked.

Edit: I don't know about the op, but is it a coincidence that the only people to respond to this thread primarily play stealth classes? I think not.
My preferred method of cc is death