Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

Kubernetic's Avatar


Kubernetic
02.16.2013 , 07:28 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by CosmicKat View Post
No. It is clone-syndrome. Each clone is pregressively less than the original and we are at about the fourth or fifth generation of EQ clone.

Each clone generation has also lessened the mutiplayer aspect of the original till the current generation which are solo games with stapled on mutiplayer side diversions. The whole point of EQ was social interaction and cooperative play and both of these things have almost been designed out of the current crop of MMO's.

Making MMO's for solo gamers is pointless, stupid, and a recipe for failure. It's like building the most beautiful and luxurious boat the world has seen and deciding it's not that important to make it float.
I've been reading your comments and I agree with a lot of them. The lack of diversity seems to be a definite factor in missing that "bang".

And it's interesting that in your other post, you mention that it's the gaming companies that have streamlined these things all into clones, and I agree.

It's also interesting that my hopes for a new innovative and novel approach come from a game that just got its funding from Kickstarter and private donations and bypassed the big game companies all together.

Maybe it really is because of these giant gaming corporations that we can't reach far enough.

And maybe there is some hope in those innovative independents that are starting to pop up in earnest.

Okay, enough of this. I must go kill more people at the pylon on Ilum...
Tekay —— En-ki —— Tékay —— Hassle —— Jaksen
Explorer (80%) • Killer (53%) • Socializer (47%) • Achiever (20%)
Excited Star Citizen — But ready to resubscribe when and if...

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
02.16.2013 , 07:35 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by Darka View Post
First MMO syndrome
Nothing comes close to that sense of wonder and awe.
Its not that the games are any less, its just that experience for the first time is gone
Thats not what BBP talking about though Darka

Hes talking about first, second, 5th, 10th, onward of the older style design

Truth of matter is anyone that played this genre long term can see exactly where a major design shift happened and the newer games (for me its at WOW and after) offer up less in way of total package experience.

If people were speaking only of their first MMORPG, then First MMO syndrome might apply.

But they are not,
goes well beyond just first MMO for many.

As I said in my first post,
for me the pre WOW MMORPGs focused ALLOT more on Community and social interaction
Social interaction was defined as actually interacting with people, talking to them, communicating
just grouping and silently running a flashpoint or ops is not social interaction

For others it was the exploration
I know I was in AWE of EQ, AC, SWG (even though ultimately disliked game), DAoC, FFXI, and more when it came to exploration of the game and that awe lasted much much much longer then 2 weeks- 4 weeks

Sorry but First MMO syndrome doesnt fit here
Thats a over simplification of the entire thread
In regards to lessening F2P and Preferred restrictions
In GAMING, as in LIFE,
You get what you pay for
No game restriction is so dire that $15.00/month will not eliminate it

Dejavoodoo's Avatar


Dejavoodoo
02.16.2013 , 07:35 PM | #73
i feel the same way . Started my MMORPG journey with Anarchey Online at launch . Then Migrated to SWG when that happened . i think it's alot of " it was new to us all" with a little of the learning curve for most of the early ones being pretty hefty and having the time to invest 12 years ago . But i think also , and i'm sure some may grimace at this comment, but it seemed back then when the MMO market was a niche thing the communities rallied together and the developers took time and care and loved the games as much as the fans . Nowadays its just a fast product with high turnover .

With care to detail and love for something comes a certain built nostalgia that always makes you look fondly on the early days of any movement . But i feel ya. that childlike sense of wonder is rarely found in new titles . But sometimes found in the indie games found around once in a while.
there is darkness... there is light .. and there is the places in between ..............................................

Kalfear's Avatar


Kalfear
02.16.2013 , 07:52 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Dejavoodoo View Post
i feel the same way . Started my MMORPG journey with Anarchey Online at launch . Then Migrated to SWG when that happened . i think it's alot of " it was new to us all" with a little of the learning curve for most of the early ones being pretty hefty and having the time to invest 12 years ago . But i think also , and i'm sure some may grimace at this comment, but it seemed back then when the MMO market was a niche thing the communities rallied together and the developers took time and care and loved the games as much as the fans . Nowadays its just a fast product with high turnover .

With care to detail and love for something comes a certain built nostalgia that always makes you look fondly on the early days of any movement . But i feel ya. that childlike sense of wonder is rarely found in new titles . But sometimes found in the indie games found around once in a while.
you know I read allot of players (mostly new to MMORPGs in WOW and after) saying prior to WOW MMORPGs was a Niche market

its not true

Yes it had a smaller pool of players to draw from then the current market.
Yet games like
EQ, DAoC. FFXI all managed to maintain MORE subscribers, longer term, then Rift, TOR, Aion, Tera (subscriber meaning actually paying a monthly subscription)
SWG and EQ both went over 1 million mark (though SWG couldnt hold it for more then 2 months, fact is THEY DID IT even though was a much smaller player pool to draw from)
Original NWN on AOL was clearing 1 million per month in user fees way back in 1991 (that was HUGE MONEY for anyone in 1991)

Yes WOW exploded the market by marketing to non traditional gamer
And imo (and many others) the market has suffered greatly for it
But this mystical Niche market people like to claim was in effect prior to WOW
Thats just nonsense

Fact is if you actually look at numbers (other then WOW)
That so called niche market prior to WOW supported this genre far more consistently then what the explosion of potential post WOW player base has.

EQ went 12 years before they ever talked about a F2P option being added and survived and profited from their subscriber base only
Rift/TOR/Aion didn't even make it 12 months

Not bashing any game
Just debunking this false theory of only niche markets before WOW
In regards to lessening F2P and Preferred restrictions
In GAMING, as in LIFE,
You get what you pay for
No game restriction is so dire that $15.00/month will not eliminate it

Draekos's Avatar


Draekos
02.16.2013 , 08:23 PM | #75
Where do you get the 1 M sub mark for EQ? I played alot of that game about a decade ago and I dont recall it ever breaking 500k at the height of it's popularity. More people have played WoW than every western based MMO created before it came out, hence why ppl see the market as having been niche before.

Jinxblog's Avatar


Jinxblog
02.16.2013 , 08:47 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by ConradLionhart View Post
Why is there no new MMO that can wow me the way other games have in other genres? Why is the MMO market so stagnant?
The market feels stagnant because big companies who have the millions upon millions to make MMOs don't like to take risks with that much money. So they try to mimic an MMO that has been very, very successful. This is why there are so many WoW clones (also why there are a lot of CoD clones in the FPS world).

Innovation can happen if game companies stop trying to compete with Blizzard/WoW's market. They need to make other MMOs that fill another need that the player has. Less competition means less risk for a company, which leads to new ideas and games being green-lighted.

I'm not saying that these new MMOs will be amazing or have millions of subscribers, but they will hopefully bring a lot of new elements to the table.
No flames are necessary, you are already roasting in the fires of your own stupidity.

kirorx's Avatar


kirorx
02.16.2013 , 09:37 PM | #77
I feel it used to be MMORPG, now it's just MMO

The community and worlds have changed from a virtual land to to be immersed in to a hub for pvp and group missions

That is the big change I have seen. Instead of a virtual word it's LOL RP

MariaD's Avatar


MariaD
02.16.2013 , 09:47 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?
We are not jaded, we are sophisticated

In short, yes, I believe the changes are in us, not the games.

I am happy to report I experienced some of that "wonderland" feeling with SWTOR.

To answer your question, I think the only way to create the sense of amazement is to have user-generated content and "human" interface. User-generated content is something like what happens in EVE and Minecraft, but with more scaffolding for the casuals. The next game that will do to EVE what WoW did to EQ will hit it big.

As for human interface - characters that either voice what I type or modulate what I say, for example... Facial expressions that follow my facial expressions... Read "Snowcrash" for some ideas. People want more "face to face" encounters and the sense of human closeness. But with avatars.
Quicker
Easier
More seductive


Cinnder's Avatar


Cinnder
02.17.2013 , 03:42 AM | #79
I played City of Heroes for over 7 years and I still had frequent moments of wonder, so for me it was not just because it was new. However, now that you bring it up, all the moments of wonder I have had in SWTOR *were* just when something was new to me. I think the main things that kept the wonder going for me in CoH that are missing here were (1) the huge number of power sets, which made even the same class feel different with each new character; (2) similarly, the variety in enemies, requiring significantly different combat tactics; finally (3) the noticeable difference in power as you levelled up -- in SWTOR I can't take on many more mobs at 50 than I could at, say, 25.

TheNegotiator's Avatar


TheNegotiator
02.17.2013 , 04:21 AM | #80
What the OP is talking about it mostly a theme park vs. sandbox game. For those that don't know what that is...sandbox is an open world which does not force you to do anything in particular. Opposite that is theme park...which is what TOR is. You level your character, do your missions, talk to your comps, do flashpoints and ops...etc. You follow the plan and the "progression" path.

EQ in 99 was for the most part sandbox...today it's almost 100% theme park. Also you have to remember just how difficult EQ was when it was first released...death was always one step away. Leveling was hard and slow. You were always broke. It was very challenging but the community was great. It had real auctions, it had real factions, it had a lot of things that made it a winner, and yes part of that was the newness.

Regarding EQ Next, SOE has announced they are making the game pure sandbox (in an effort to make something extraordinary) , so maybe you will get some of your wonder back.