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I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

JnEricsonx's Avatar


JnEricsonx
02.16.2013 , 03:34 PM | #61
City of Heroes was my first MMO, I quit Diablo 2 back in 2005 or so cause I was losing my mind trying to get gear, did the trial of the game. First thing I did with the char I made was punch a guy-my force punch sent him flying into a wall. Once I stopped laughing, I realized I loved the game. God I miss it.

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Tamanous
02.16.2013 , 03:36 PM | #62
The old mmos seemed amazing when exploring for one reason: They rewarded exploring. All loot and bosses were available in open world.

Todays mmos divide all content into little bite sized chunks and take play control out of the players hands. All bosses are hermetically sealed in little instances along with all rewards. Hell even the rewards aren't sometimes and you only get a little poker chip to turn in somewhere else.

The only way Swtor will survive is to keep trying to break the mold they copied and throw in more and more player driven systems accessible through the open world. At Bioware's pace of development I don't see this happening.

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Costello
02.16.2013 , 03:49 PM | #63
While it wasn't my first MMO I remember loging in to Star Wars Galaxies for the first time and getting that Iconic Yellow text telling me it was a time of Civil War and it was amazing. Then logging into a detailed and wonderful character creator where I could create an iconic Star Wars Character and then loading into Mos Eilsey and being struck by the living breathing world of Star Wars.

But more than these first few moments of jaw droping wonder I was presented with so many choices, did I want to pick pistols or carbines or rifles or go to the cantina and heal battle fatigue as a musician (oh for those pilots when JTL came inn who had spent too long in the vacum filled with wounds). And here is the big difference between then and now was the unlimited (or so it seemed) possibility. If I wanted to use Rifles and Pistols I could, swords and survival it was an option the choice was mine. The streets teamed with people and barker droids. What did I want to do first goto a terminal and do stand missions, work on my faction rank from an Imperial terminal, work on crafting etc etc.

And thats the big difference than today, in todays MMO we start at A and then goto B and then to C. My choice of gear is about what is the best I can ware not whether I trade protection for stamina, and my choice of skill is basically which of 3 talent trees do I max out on to get the top tier skill and then dip into on the others. The reason much of the wonder is gone is that so much of the choice is gone and the game has been dumbed down where rather than choice we have to follow the path laid out with almost no choice in the matter. Do I goto Taris or Nar Shardaar first well thats obvious whichever one my level is set for.

To get the wonder back we need to see more open world, more choice more of logging in for that first time and being almost over whelmed with what to do first. And this starts right at the begining with Character creation where you are faced with the smiling faces of a bunch of different species/races and more character creation options that you could hope for.

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CosmicKat
02.16.2013 , 04:53 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
one part nostaligia

one part game design. Star Wars is a streamlined MMO experiece. That's the way it was built.

MMOs aren't one formula. Many people make that mistake. If you want a more exploration based MMO you have other choices. Its really one part of the market. Streamlined and story telling versus wide open and less hand holding. Choice is yours.
Modern MMO's are being streamlined into irrelevence. There are no alternatives, other than to re-play old games.

Players don't understand that "penalties" exist in games for a reason. They are not there just to be aggravating. Removing or reducing penalties is not in itself a bad idea, but removing/reducing them without also replacing them with anything that fills their needed game mechanic is a bad design decision.

That is what we have today, MMO's that spoon feed the players and never punish them for anything. They have forgotten that games are supposed to challenge you, not just delay your "victory".

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Mallorik
02.16.2013 , 05:08 PM | #65
MMO's have no consequences anymore, no death penalties, no traveling and little to no dificulty outside of end gear progression raiding add to that leveling to end game now takes 6 days instead of 6 months.

Whether you like those chages or not it does not change the fact that when you get rid of all of that you get rid of all sense of accomplishment with your character.

They traded all of that to catch the casual sub, now that the casuals are demanding to play for free and the mmo market is becoming very overcrowded you can bet someone will try to capture that "hardcore" crowd that misses the days of the real mmos.

Sony is already trying it with the game Wizardry, the only problem i have with that game is that it looks like it was made before everquest, and in asia.

Darka's Avatar


Darka
02.16.2013 , 05:43 PM | #66
First MMO syndrome
Nothing comes close to that sense of wonder and awe.
Its not that the games are any less, its just that experience for the first time is gone
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LeonBraun
02.16.2013 , 06:26 PM | #67
What is lacking in this game is vision, leadership, and pride in one's work... There was a ton of potential in this game when it launched. But it simply is led by the wrong people who clearly don't have the capacity to build the game into what it should be.
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Draekos
02.16.2013 , 06:59 PM | #68
EQ back in the day was amazing. The world felt epic. The only MMO that can still wow me is LOTRO, but a lot of that is because they do a great job of rendering locations from the books. With swtor some place names are the same but almost nothing reminds me of the original trilogy.
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Kubernetic
02.16.2013 , 07:15 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new, I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?
Although some of the gameplay mechanics were kind of wonky, and the exterior maps were just dreadful, I still don't think I've ever come across another game that had the same kind of emotional feel that I had when I was playing NeoCron 2 and running around NeoCron City, listening to the NCPD announcements, various faction announcements, sounding a lot like Blade Runner environments.

Accidentally unholster your weapon and the local NCPD Police bot tells you to halt where you are, raises his rifle at you, and tells you to put down your weapon. Venturing down into the sewers to blast rats and spiders and bees and bats, LOL.

But then you could make enough credits to buy some augments and add some super bones and eye implants, heart, lung, brain implants, all to boost up your skills.

The monorail system was just awesome.... and sometimes I'd just sit in one of the cars and watch as it took you all the way around NeoCron City, even to the outlying areas that you couldn't go into if you weren't geared up enough.

But I kind of think that was just because it was that novel experience. We'd never done that kind of thing on our computers before. And each of us may have had our own particular game that it happened with, and then every other game after it, no matter how advanced or innovative, just seems to never capture that initial thrill.

The video game equivalent of chasing the dragon.

It'll happen again. I have to say, I half-expect that the new Chris Roberts game is going to have that sense of wonder to it, primarily for being such a new game and a new strategy about how to do things. But I also know that it's very likely I'm just transplanting my love for Wing Commander and Privateer especially, both games that also had that awesome sense of wonder, except of course as single-player campaigns instead of online worlds.

I know for one thing, I don't think I've ever had as much fun as having found the pirate bases in Privateer and then starting up a Brilliance and Ultimate smuggling business, running drugs into the core systems. Evading ConFed patrols and sometimes having to jettison the cargo, wait to be scanned, then retrieve the cargo with the tractor beam in order to proceed toward mad profits was just down right fun. Part of my hope for the new Chris Roberts game comes due to me wondering if that will be possible again. We have already been confirmed that pirate bases will exist... and we know there will be UEEE patrols in the high security systems...

What's most assured is that by the time we're engaging in more real-life kinetic games, such as something akin to augmented reality or even virtual reality (that doesn't give you a headache after 20 minutes), we'll most definitely see that sense of wonder again. We just need a big enough leap.

A game modeled so closely on WOW probably was never going to do it, no matter how damned cool it was. The stories are great, the voiceovers and cinematics are great, and I've played this game since launch and I love it... but not like Privateer... and not quite like NeoCron...

POST SCRIPT -- BTW I was just remembering, I actually got so nostalgic for NeoCron again that I tried like hell to get back into the game. Apparently, it's still up and running, but hasn't really been developed, as the company that ran it has gone into bankruptcy and restructuring and so forth. But I was able to finagle my way in, after having bought the game again (buying an 8 year old game, sheesh).

It was fun for a while, and it really took me back to the glory days. However there were only 30 people online at any given time.... the world was just too empty, and it was just too dated. In its time, it was magnificent, or so I thought. But you just can't go back again. You can return to the same location, but times have changed, and it won't ever be what it was at that time at that moment.

Hell it works with dance clubs too. Will there ever be a better nightclub than Aahz and the Aahz Reunion days in Orlando during the 1990-1993 era?
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CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
02.16.2013 , 07:19 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by Darka View Post
First MMO syndrome
Nothing comes close to that sense of wonder and awe.
Its not that the games are any less, its just that experience for the first time is gone
No. It is clone-syndrome. Each clone is pregressively less than the original and we are at about the fourth or fifth generation of EQ clone.

Each clone generation has also lessened the mutiplayer aspect of the original till the current generation which are solo games with stapled on mutiplayer side diversions. The whole point of EQ was social interaction and cooperative play and both of these things have almost been designed out of the current crop of MMO's.

Making MMO's for solo gamers is pointless, stupid, and a recipe for failure. It's like building the most beautiful and luxurious boat the world has seen and deciding it's not that important to make it float.