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I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

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I miss the days when MMOs were wonderous...

Cortal's Avatar


Cortal
02.16.2013 , 03:55 AM | #11
i still enjoy the mmo "rotation" i seem to have set myself into (play wow for a while, go to rift, then go to gw 2, then switch to TOR, repeat) and the only thing that seems to be lacking is the world size

TL;DR at the bottom (i ramble)

i'll compare to wow

in rift, its start in this area (only ONE starting zone per FACTION) then go here, then go here, then go here, then go here, then here, max level do dungeons

its pretty much the same in tor, with two starting zones (planets) for each faction, but after that its dromund kaas, balmorra, nar shadda, tatooine, etc

in wow, its a starting zone for each race (13 races/starting zone now, 8 races at launch, 6 starting zones at launch [only two more than tor]) but then there is a much less linear progression after that. ex. you start in deathknell as undead, then you're lead to tirisfall glades, but you can jump over to kalimdor (another continent) and jump into durotar or mulgore (both eventually lead to the same area though). it starts with quite a few options, and around level 20-25 you start to get onto the more linear path for whichever continent you are on, however there is almost always two optional progression paths (interchangeable) on each continent, for an approximate total of 4 linear ways to level 1-60. And thats just questing (many more dungeons to progress through to try to keep it from getting too stale [it still does though]).

so when you compare the world size of TOR to WoW, WoW has a much larger and expanded world to go through how you see fit, whereas TOR you get your shared class planet (warrior + inquisitor, BH + Agent) and then its the same planet after the next, with no alternate routs to experience more areas of the game.

they could even advance the story based on where you went, ex. at 18 when you finish dromund kaas as an inq you could have two planets (lets use balmorra and nar shadda, the already existing options) suggested to you, and when you arrive on either one (lets say they're both meant to be lvl 18-22 progression) zash comes up on your holo and says that she located one of the holocrons on whichever planet you're on. finish your class quests then off to the other two options for planets and repeat.

this isn't much of a solution, but it would at least one other leveling path to take.

TL;DR (because i ramble about nothing forever) WoW has a much larger and expanded world with multiple quest progression options, whereas TOR has one linear path (sandbox vs rollercoaster)
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Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
02.16.2013 , 04:37 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new, I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?
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Thornsbane's Avatar


Thornsbane
02.16.2013 , 04:56 AM | #13
Its because the very idea of an MMo was amazing then. Now your used to it. The games have not changed, you have.

Wallner's Avatar


Wallner
02.16.2013 , 04:58 AM | #14
I agree there was definitely something special there when I first started, that has now faded.

Grew up as a kid who loved to imagine living in other worlds, loved everything fantasy or sci-fi. And then one day, I get to jump into a persistant unexplored fantasy world and make my own character? It was a phenomenon. And at the beginning I started playing without my friends, which I think added to the mystery and wonder, it was like this secret world that I could loose myself in and explore.
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Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
02.16.2013 , 05:06 AM | #15
Euphoria.

My first mmo was, always will be my favorite. All others will pale in comparison regardless of how much more advanced and intricate they are.
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Trushott's Avatar


Trushott
02.16.2013 , 05:11 AM | #16
It's older gamers at the time didn't mind the grind and accepted it as fun

Over time each expansion in Everquest took away grind once Luclin came out and u could go anywhere in EQ so fast the world got incredibly small

New gamers for most part come rom a have to have now cannot wait instant gratification generation and simply wouldn't like it very much sadly

But the reason the game world seemed so large were travel times were absolute huge and vast which gives a sense of wow this is an entire world ... Which is good sometimes

Sadly I do not think there are fine wine drinkers that want to savor each sip left in gaming for most part gamers of today would rather shotgun the beer and be done with it


With all that said ... Even though huge travel times through many zones may seem like an ordeal it presents adventure on the way ... And even though most think they do not like it I think deep down they do and do not realize its what's makes a digitized world seem to come alive... But no developers have the wherewithal to sustain the barrage of whiners if they did ...

Just my two cents
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VegaPhone's Avatar


VegaPhone
02.16.2013 , 05:12 AM | #17
There needs to be a new approach to open world and crafting. Also new mini games which are pvp, and more pvp elements in general.

-Open world needs to feel more impactful, but this is the problem with large businesses and going with the status quo. The status quo apparently is wrong, and that is the main problem.

I could suggest many ideas on how to make open world better, but the general idea is to make more impactful, encourage exploration more, and even have group content and dynamic events.

Overall adding immersion to a simulated reality which could also benefit from day/night cycles.

-Crafting. This is done well in swtor, but its based on the status quo. Not on open world fun, and depth. Its made simple, and simple gets boring especially when it has little purpose in a safe themepark MMO. Why do I need credits? To pay repair bills, or pay for vanity items... the rest is a grind. However, I dont want to be cynical but point out, any system of lvling is a grind, but when its based on something that feels real and in depth, that it does not feel like a grind. Doing FPs, story, and Ops as new content is wonderful, but on the rinse and repeat its no different than any other cookie cutter MMO, and that is why tying it in with the open world, crafting, team work to get resources and making crafting a real alternative to raiding as well adds a lot to the game.

-Mini games would be huge as well. Pazaak, swoop racing among other options wouild add a real life presence in swtor, creating a culture in the game, that does not feel limited to the fleet and raiding or popping a WZ que.

-Bounty hunting can also add to the game.

-Player housing and decoration. This could be instanced. However, they can add it with such depth and reward that it is something great to have and is money better spent than on money sinks of repair bills which is only a reminder of other peoples failures most of the time rather than something that helps with inflation. If they want to deal with inflation put fun money sinks into the game.

Guild mechanics

3d space combat - sand box style but balanced for a themepark MMo.

Allow for player made content - we can write books and put them in the library in swtor, or make things like desinging swoop race tracks possible.

-Tournaments. For themeparks, I think this is a must to make the challenge more engaging. Anything that can be turned into a tournament. PVP, even OPs with timers, pazaak tournaments, duel arenas tournaments, swoop racing tournaments, etc. Maybe even allow for players to customize their own events and tournaments with their own prizes and possible special requirements (going back to the player made content idea).

NPC alignment - This goes back to the open world idea, but its a specific idea that takes the idea of alignment with NPCs helping the player or the opposite, and players trying to navigate the world when collecting certain resources and consider the NPCs territory. Also maybe make guilds affect the location of NPCs by forts that they capture in the open world. These are examples of having an impact on the environment.

OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
02.16.2013 , 05:16 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
Back in the day when MMOs were still pretty new, I got into Everquest and it seemed amazing. The world was huge and had tons of places to explore. There were endless things to do. When you got to endgame, you actually felt powerful, like you had accomplished something. I would print out spell lists and maps and had them organized in a big folder super-geeky style. I took that game as srs bsns.

This thread is not to bag on SWToR or how to talk about how other games are better. I am here to ask you guys what you think is missing. I know that there are a lot of you who were blown away by Everquest or (insert your first big MMO here). What did they have that brought that sense of amazement?

Was it that we were new to it? Are we just burned out and jaded? Maybe even OLD and jaded? Is there anything that could be brought to SWToR to being a sense of wow (no pun intended) and amazement?
The same could be said about all game types.
I remember playing Doom (yes, im that old) back in the day of 2d graphics and thinking "wow, this game is huuuuuuuuuuuge!"

craic_fox's Avatar


craic_fox
02.16.2013 , 05:20 AM | #19
EQ was my first MMO. What made it 'wondrous' was the fact that I didn't have a fecking clue what I was doing. I didn't know anything about how the game worked, so I easily became completely enthralled by the whole experience.
Inevitably, as I played more MMOs I began to compare them and started to find each lacking in one way or another. Worse, I became too familiar with the skinner box mechanics to ever be able to find the 'magic' again.

I've played countless MMOs since EQ and they've all been fun, but you can never recapture the excitement of your first MMO. A game would need to completely rewrite the rule book and throw away every tired convention of the genre to make MMOs new and exciting again.

CosmicKat's Avatar


CosmicKat
02.16.2013 , 05:21 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Redfoot_ View Post
MMOs these days are basically solo games with grouping tagged on, an afterthought if you will. Until the game designers overcome this hurdle we will not see another Everquest or the like.
I concur.

Almost every MMO released since EQ hit it big has been a virtual clone of EQ gameplay that gets watered down and over simplified with each new clone. Essentially what they are doing is giving us lesser versions of the same old game for the same money. Now with the microtransaction fad, they are actually beginning to allow us to pay real cash to avoid playing the game. They are innovating the genre out of existence.