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A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
A Summary of Increased Repair Cost Problems (for BW/EA)
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Angry_Ferth's Avatar


Angry_Ferth
02.16.2013 , 04:43 PM | #771
This thread seems to keep changing in focus.

Now the debate seems to be "MMOs should require x amount of work for y amount of fun, if you can't accept it don't play."

I would point out that Ratajack contradicted his own argument at one point by pointing out that raids and flashpoints could be considered work as well.

The work/fun debate is entirely in the eye of the beholder, if you don't mind doing dailies then bully for you. I absolutely despise them, for reasons I've already given in a post that seems to have been mostly ignored.

As to the primary motivation for doing content, that's an ancillary argument. I don't care if people are motivated by gear or by social interaction, or by enjoyment of the content therein. (I'm inclined to agree that on some level, the loot rewards are always a motivating factor, I'd certainly like to have something to show for the time I spend doing the content.)

The heart of the issue for me will still continue to be that repair costs should not be used as a gating mechanism for content. I could argue that Bioware already seemed to agree with this, since way back in 1.2 they decided that prohibitively expensive repair costs were not in the best interest of the game.

As for the argument that you need to have some slog to make the fun more enjoyable... That's a bit of a paper tiger.

Nor is it really germane to what the actual issue is with this "fix."

With nothing but the patch notes to go off of, it's reasonable to experience a 33-50% increase in repair costs. People are purportedly experiencing repair costs increases from 100% to 400%. That screams to me that something is not working properly and needs to be fixed.

If something is broken, then any sort of argument about "stop complaining, and grind dailies" is vapid at best. We need to point out to the devs that something is not working as intended and needs looking into. If you disagree then something is ultimately wrong with your perception of how things should work.

If this change is working as intended then their patch notes were not accurate and need to be updated. In which case I'd probably like to know the underlying reasoning behind the decision that repair costs were too low and needed to be raised by such a large increment.

Once that happens, depending on the outcome the debate can resume. If it is a bug, and it gets fixed then hooray. The people complaining were correct. If the patch notes were inaccurate we can resume the debate about gating content with repair costs.

FOnazi's Avatar


FOnazi
02.16.2013 , 04:46 PM | #772
Quote: Originally Posted by DiabloPL View Post
Because if dps got 18k hp or tank got 20k it means he got columi stuff without augments or wrong mods and that means he is new and most probably dont know much and will do stupid mistakes im not planning to fund. Sorry but i wont spend my private time on doing dailies just to spend it on repairs because someone did a mistake.
Alright so my Juggy DPS with only 17830 health that can deal 1360 DPS (Vengeance Spec) and is in full BH (Implants & Earpeices + PvP Relics), all but the belt and bracers, is not worthy enough of being in group finder?
The Faded Legacy, Jedi Covenant
The Onazi Legacy, Begeron Colony

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.16.2013 , 04:50 PM | #773
Quote: Originally Posted by Stenrik View Post
I haven't been raiding lately so this doesn't affect me personally, but the first thing that came into my mind about this issue is that it benefits the cartel market.
If there are too many credits floating around the game, many players are more likely to just spend in-game currency on cartel legacy unlocks and gear. Soaking up some of that cash with extra repairs makes people turn to the real world to purchase things.

My 2.
Exactly. They reduced repair costs when they introduced legacy, because legacy brought in huge credit sinks for the population that had wealth over 1-2 million. With the introduction of the Cartel market, $10 can buy most of the legacy unlocks, bypassing that particular credit sink. Moreover, players selling cartel packs are making a killing. So there's more money being generated, without an appropriate sink to keep the game economy and inflation under control. They discussed this in the Guild Summit. They track these things, and adjust them as needed.

Now that players are generating so much more revenue, with dailies, cartel items, etc., the credit sink was deemed necessary. This being the justification beyond that the reduction was bugged and not accounting for the quality of mods.

I ran Xeno 16m SM and 16m HM, and paid approx 3,000 credits, on each character I ran it on, in repairs.
My repairs for running dailies in Ilum and killing each of the open world bosses 3 times were under 400 credits.
This is in full Campaign gear.

I ran a flash point in my Columi geared sentinel, repairs were 6,197 credits.

So, with my dailies on one character (approx 400-500k credits, I enjoy working for currency, and seeing my balance reach over several million..) and selling three Rakata implants (daily commendations - sold for approx. 160k each) and selling the mods (4 enhancements, 16k-18k each), I am more than covered.

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.16.2013 , 04:51 PM | #774
Quote: Originally Posted by Urael View Post
Too little too late. It cost you a subscription. Mine. Too little communication. Too much CM Store. Your employers ruined a potentially great Star Wars MMORPG with their unbridled short term greed, lack of communication and out right lies concerning the switch to F2P. Never again EA/ Bioware. Never again!
Bye!
/wave

Pirana's Avatar


Pirana
02.16.2013 , 04:53 PM | #775
Quote: Originally Posted by FOnazi View Post
Why do people place so much value on HP?
It's the first indicator of a person's gear, spec, etc. All level fifties have the opportunity to start out in Tionese gear. If they haven't made that attempt, either A) are not aware, or B) would rather someone else carry them. As a Tank and Healer, gear is the first thing I look for while grouping in a pug. For a tank, it's exponentially worse in group environments due to us being the meat shields.

With the current cost of repairs, if I see one person in greens or blues, I'll notify them why I'm leaving. It's extremely harsh to take that approach, but I won't fund someone else's learning curve until this issue is rectified. This is part of the problem with the current state of the game.
Beta - April 16, 2014 (Retired)
The Journey Is Often Greater Than The Destination - Pirana

mothear's Avatar


mothear
02.16.2013 , 04:55 PM | #776
Quote: Originally Posted by Angry_Ferth View Post
This thread seems to keep changing in focus.

snip .........
If something is broken, then any sort of argument about "stop complaining, and grind dailies" is vapid at best. We need to point out to the devs that something is not working as intended and needs looking into. If you disagree then something is ultimately wrong with your perception of how things should work.

If this change is working as intended then their patch notes were not accurate and need to be updated. In which case I'd probably like to know the underlying reasoning behind the decision that repair costs were too low and needed to be raised by such a large increment.

Once that happens, depending on the outcome the debate can resume. If it is a bug, and it gets fixed then hooray. The people complaining were correct. If the patch notes were inaccurate we can resume the debate about gating content with repair costs.
I agree with much of this but in the same way that those that are saying 'stop complaining' should desist so should those demanding a roll back, or to revert to pre-1.7 repair costs. We can discuss this issue more accurately once we know what the issue actually is.

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.16.2013 , 04:55 PM | #777
Quote: Originally Posted by Lostpenguins View Post
What's there to look into? WAI or not, lots of people are unhappy. In the end, unless you reduce costs you're going to leave a lot of people upset.

Look at Blizzard and D3. There was a point they increased repair costs to a point a lot of people got upset. Was it a bug? No. What did Blizzard do? The lowered the repair costs.

Hate to say it, but there's very little to debate here.
WoW is much more difficult to generate high levels of currency, unless you're a crafter and have epic, BiS or 2nd BiS items to sell. The currency/inflation/economy is different. Consider the percentages, of course 20 gold seems less expensive than 1,000-5,000 credits, but you can also earn 8000+ credits in a single quest in SWTOR, while wow might reward 1-2 gold. WoW also tried to list items competitively in the AH. SWTOR players list items for under vendor price on the GTN. Because they often don't care/don't need the extra credits.

Nicolettexiv's Avatar


Nicolettexiv
02.16.2013 , 04:57 PM | #778
Quote: Originally Posted by nogueiraa View Post
you're late sir, me and my guild already canceled our subscription.

Maybe if you fix 50/100 bugs in this game, maybe we will sub again.
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DiabloPL's Avatar


DiabloPL
02.16.2013 , 04:58 PM | #779
Quote: Originally Posted by FOnazi View Post
Alright so my Juggy DPS with only 17830 health that can deal 1360 DPS (Vengeance Spec) and is in full BH (Implants & Earpeices + PvP Relics), all but the belt and bracers, is not worthy enough of being in group finder?
Never heard about people with full black hole dps set and 17.8k hp.

In theory this could be possible if u place augments with no strenght and endurance like power and defense but putting tanking augments into dps set is so bad i hope we never meet in one group.

FOnazi's Avatar


FOnazi
02.16.2013 , 05:03 PM | #780
Quote: Originally Posted by Pirana View Post
It's the first indicator of a person's gear, spec, etc. All level fifties have the opportunity to start out in Tionese gear. If they haven't made that attempt, either A) are not aware, or B) would rather someone else carry them. As a Tank and Healer, gear is the first thing I look for while grouping in a pug. For a tank, it's exponentially worse in group environments due to us being the meat shields.

With the current cost of repairs, if I see one person in greens or blues, I'll notify them why I'm leaving. It's extremely harsh to take that approach, but I won't fund someone else's learning curve until this issue is rectified. This is part of the problem with the current state of the game.
I can see your point of going into a flashpoint, seeing a tank wearing greens and leaving. I get that, I have done that regardless of repair bills.

My question is that HP isn't everything, like I said, my juggy doesn't even have 18K HP in BH gear and some of it is augmented. My campaign geared Sniper barely touches 20K, my Shadow tank in BH/Campaign gear and one peice of Rakata hits 22256 for the most part augmented
The Faded Legacy, Jedi Covenant
The Onazi Legacy, Begeron Colony