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Lethality Op PVP vid 2

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Lethality Op PVP vid 2
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Technohic's Avatar


Technohic
02.13.2013 , 10:24 AM | #11
Yeah. That's good. A dev posts and lets throw a parade! Everything is good. Nothing to see here!

*plugs ears*

lalalalalalallalalalalalalallalaallalalala!

Lord_Karsk's Avatar


Lord_Karsk
02.13.2013 , 10:28 AM | #12
Dont see to many with that spec, fun to watch.Should try it on my scoundrel.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.13.2013 , 11:17 AM | #13
The cynic in me can't help but feel like that dev post is in here to draw attention to someone performing well with a generally underperforming spec. "See, balance is great!"
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.13.2013 , 11:34 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Lord_Karsk View Post
Dont see to many with that spec, fun to watch.Should try it on my scoundrel.
The spec is still pretty god awful, despite what the video and the wild-dev-appearing may think.

Lethality Operatives are just confused about what they should be doing. Is it a ranged DOT spec that eats away as you kite? Maybe...but some of the most important Lethality abilities need to be used within 10 meters, and you can't kite a Pyrotech at 10 meters.

Is it a burst spec that does a lot of damage? Maybe...but for any serious damage to happen you need all your DOTs ticking and you need to give them time to work.

Is it a hybrid spec that improves some of the worst Operative matchups? Maybe...it makes the Pyrotech matchup easier because you can kite and let DOTs work (and even that is really hard), but it makes the Sin matchup even worse.

Is it a DOT spec like Madness? Maybe...it has strong DOTs and improved energy management, but no self-healing and long-range kiting.

The Lethality Operative spec is fun, don't get me wrong. But at this stage, it is trying to do too many things and doing all of them poorly.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.13.2013 , 11:45 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Lethality Operatives are just confused about what they should be doing. Is it a ranged DOT spec that eats away as you kite? Maybe...but some of the most important Lethality abilities need to be used within 10 meters, and you can't kite a Pyrotech at 10 meters.
Not to mention Tactical Advantage pretty much just comes from shiv, which is 4m. Are people taking the talent to get TA from Kolto Injection or something?

Quote:
for any serious damage to happen you need all your DOTs ticking
There are just two, right? Corrosive Dart and Corrosive grenade?
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.

Ravashakk's Avatar


Ravashakk
02.13.2013 , 11:48 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by deanth View Post
It's definitely not fluff damage, and it's a very powerful spec, but it's a much harder spec to play effectively. Your major burst is going to happen around 5-6 GCD's in, if the dots haven't been cleansed already. Survivability is fairly low and lethality is out in the open most of the time with 2 fairly weak defense cd's. The lack of mobility.
The spec does decent in 1v1s, but I feel it shines in group play (contrary to the concealment operative). In a 1v1, the chances of your dots getting cleansed are high, but in group play with dots everywhere they will generally stick. If you take the lingering toxins talent, it makes sure they stay on long enough to get some culls in.

I do agree there is a ramp up time to get to the bigger burst and that the defensive cooldowns are kind of meh when compared to a marauder. Part of my enjoyment is working around the things I can't change.

Quote: Originally Posted by cultivatedmass View Post
until you start chaining culls with 2 dots on target, it's fluff damage.

if you can't get more than 1 dot on your target., cull is like shiv, but more expensive.

if your target dies right after you acid grenade them or otherwise goes out of range(or cleanses). you're **** until acid cd is back.

in a perfect scenario though the damage is pretty good, which is most 1v1's.

it's a real shame your flashbang doesn't cleanse your own dots.
I guess we have different definitions on fluff dmg. If you look in my video, PLENTY of times my dots are killing ppl despite the presense of decent healers on the other team. Everyone likes to theorycraft on paper that dots can be healed through and cleansed, but they don't account for al ot of variables that come into play in an actual war zone. If fluff dmg is large dmg amounts that get healed through, then I submit smash for fluff dmg recognition.

A non crit cull on a target above 30% health without weakening blast debuff and only 1 dot will still do more dmg than a non crit shiv by 300-500 (off the top of my head).

As for the "you're screwed if you can't get 2 dots on someone" mentality, you have to play to the class' strengths instead of just waiting on a cooldown for acid grenade. Our other abilities hit hard enough that you can kill ppl without dotting/culling them at all. It isn't nearly as efficient, but can get the job done.

Yes, I would love if flash bang ignored dot dmg or my dot dmg or just cleansed the target of dots.
Medicine/Lethality PVP Patch 2.3
I don't tab dot to fluff my damage...I tab dot so that when I'm done wrecking your buddy, I can move right on to wrecking you.

Ravashakk's Avatar


Ravashakk
02.13.2013 , 11:52 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexModny View Post
Great highlight video Nebukanezer! I really enjoyed your use of AoE damage and cover (Explosive Probe is so very neglected for the Lethality Ops I find) in addition to those nasty Culls of yours. Especially liked your first video where you fight the Focus Sentinel (http://youtu.be/Igzb7Foxo6s?t=5m8s) and DoT up the whole team at center point in CW (http://youtu.be/Igzb7Foxo6s?t=19m38s) Great stuff!

Also how about that Carbine Blast, Frag Grenade and Orbital Strike all on top of a ticking Corrosive Grenade? Does some devastating area damage amirite? I donít use Carbine Blast as often as I should in those situations so thanks for showing me how itís done. Now you got me all jazzed to play my Dirty Fighter tonight! *POW*
I honestly didn't know devs watched PVP videos, so thank you for your time.

I know a lot of ppl are going to post about how you are trying to make it seem like the spec is balanced and not in need of help, which I do not think that was your intention. I think what you took from it, is what I wanted others to take from it....another point of view that maybe they're doing something wrong if they ever tried the spec. Abilities get neglected and the player underperforms...thus thinking the spec is gimped more than it is. It needs a little help here and there for smoothness of playing, but the dmg portion of it is fine IMO.
Medicine/Lethality PVP Patch 2.3
I don't tab dot to fluff my damage...I tab dot so that when I'm done wrecking your buddy, I can move right on to wrecking you.

cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.13.2013 , 11:53 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ravashakk View Post
The spec does decent in 1v1s, but I feel it shines in group play (contrary to the concealment operative). In a 1v1, the chances of your dots getting cleansed are high, but in group play with dots everywhere they will generally stick. If you take the lingering toxins talent, it makes sure they stay on long enough to get some culls in.

I do agree there is a ramp up time to get to the bigger burst and that the defensive cooldowns are kind of meh when compared to a marauder. Part of my enjoyment is working around the things I can't change.



I guess we have different definitions on fluff dmg. If you look in my video, PLENTY of times my dots are killing ppl despite the presense of decent healers on the other team. Everyone likes to theorycraft on paper that dots can be healed through and cleansed, but they don't account for al ot of variables that come into play in an actual war zone. If fluff dmg is large dmg amounts that get healed through, then I submit smash for fluff dmg recognition.

A non crit cull on a target above 30% health without weakening blast debuff and only 1 dot will still do more dmg than a non crit shiv by 300-500 (off the top of my head).

As for the "you're screwed if you can't get 2 dots on someone" mentality, you have to play to the class' strengths instead of just waiting on a cooldown for acid grenade. Our other abilities hit hard enough that you can kill ppl without dotting/culling them at all. It isn't nearly as efficient, but can get the job done.

Yes, I would love if flash bang ignored dot dmg or my dot dmg or just cleansed the target of dots.
Pretty much all of this can be applied to madness for assassins. Just like lethality for ops, very few people play the spec.

cultivatedmass's Avatar


cultivatedmass
02.13.2013 , 12:02 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Ravashakk View Post
The spec does decent in 1v1s, but I feel it shines in group play (contrary to the concealment operative). In a 1v1, the chances of your dots getting cleansed are high, but in group play with dots everywhere they will generally stick. If you take the lingering toxins talent, it makes sure they stay on long enough to get some culls in.

I do agree there is a ramp up time to get to the bigger burst and that the defensive cooldowns are kind of meh when compared to a marauder. Part of my enjoyment is working around the things I can't change.



I guess we have different definitions on fluff dmg. If you look in my video, PLENTY of times my dots are killing ppl despite the presense of decent healers on the other team. Everyone likes to theorycraft on paper that dots can be healed through and cleansed, but they don't account for al ot of variables that come into play in an actual war zone. If fluff dmg is large dmg amounts that get healed through, then I submit smash for fluff dmg recognition.

A non crit cull on a target above 30% health without weakening blast debuff and only 1 dot will still do more dmg than a non crit shiv by 300-500 (off the top of my head).

As for the "you're screwed if you can't get 2 dots on someone" mentality, you have to play to the class' strengths instead of just waiting on a cooldown for acid grenade. Our other abilities hit hard enough that you can kill ppl without dotting/culling them at all. It isn't nearly as efficient, but can get the job done.

Yes, I would love if flash bang ignored dot dmg or my dot dmg or just cleansed the target of dots.
it's a frag video.

do you know how overpowered concealment ops look in a frag video?

when you pick and choose clips everything looks really good.

i play both dps ops and there are too many times where i can't get both dots off on a target just as there are too many times where i can't use my opener as concealment.


also, aoe dot spam is not good for team oriented play. they break too much cc.

Ravashakk's Avatar


Ravashakk
02.13.2013 , 12:13 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
The spec is still pretty god awful, despite what the video and the wild-dev-appearing may think.
I think God awful is a bit harsh. If you were to make a list of major problems with the spec, it would look like this:

1. DoTs breaking CC makes it less viable in competitive PVP (ranked)
2. Ramp up time for burst
3. TA generation is weak
4. Defensive cooldowns

Most everything else I hear is minor.

#1, when you form a ranked team, making your composition matters. If you choose to make a CC heavy team (mezzes not stuns), then having a dotter on the team is counterproductive. That isn't the fault of the spec, but the person picking the team. That doesn't mean I think there shouldn't be changes to help in this department, but I can deal with it.
#2, it is a tradeoff. You get higher burst, but it takes a bit to setup. If that kind of dmg was spammable while being front loaded, it would be OP. I don't need to see this change, because to me it is apart of the spec.
#3, is one of hte bigger issues with the spec. I've always thought a similar talent to the healing tree should be implemented that gave your dots a chance to proc TA. Maybe said talent would also increase TA duration since our ramp up time requires it stay on longer sometimes.
#4, although it doesn't bother me too much I do feel we have some of the weakest def cooldowns in the game (operatives in general) If we were going to receive any kind of buff in that department, it would have to neglect the healing tree. The last thing they need is more survivability.

Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Lethality Operatives are just confused about what they should be doing. Is it a ranged DOT spec that eats away as you kite? Maybe...but some of the most important Lethality abilities need to be used within 10 meters, and you can't kite a Pyrotech at 10 meters.
You see that as a weakness, I call it flexibility. Yes, we do have to be in close to get our burst off, but we can get a lot of our dmg going from ranged before we jump in the mix. Powertechs are similar in the sense they can do a good portion of dmg from ranged, but to really do their burst they have to be up close.

Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Is it a burst spec that does a lot of damage? Maybe...but for any serious damage to happen you need all your DOTs ticking and you need to give them time to work.
The spec relies on RNG a lot. That is part of the charm I think, kind of like 2h enhancement shaman back in vanilla wow. Doing small dmg......then...BAM *lights out*. Cull can go from high 2ks if everything non crits without debuffs, to hitting for 7.5k with a triple crit on debuffed targets.

Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Is it a DOT spec like Madness? Maybe...it has strong DOTs and improved energy management, but no self-healing and long-range kiting.

The Lethality Operative spec is fun, don't get me wrong. But at this stage, it is trying to do too many things and doing all of them poorly.
I think you mean no instant self healing (which I would love). I am jealous that dps sages can put up bubbles and instant heal on a fairly short cooldown.
Medicine/Lethality PVP Patch 2.3
I don't tab dot to fluff my damage...I tab dot so that when I'm done wrecking your buddy, I can move right on to wrecking you.