Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Dealing with Ninjaloot in FP PuG's?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Dealing with Ninjaloot in FP PuG's?

Beslley's Avatar


Beslley
02.08.2013 , 12:04 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by AMcM-T View Post
If item is BoE;
Need = Bound
Greed = BoE

So ninjas can only ever get the base cash value of an item, no GTN for you!

This obviously applies to items that were BoE in the first place, but could be universal in dealing with items that no one want due to party make up or gear inflation allowing for GTN or alting as the winner sees fit.

so,
If item is BoP;
Need = Bound
Greed = BoE (BoL?)
Does the second bit offend anyone?
I have, I admit, needed pieces out of spite, or needed on pieces I already had if the person who needed it was an a**hat the whole time. That being said, most pieces from FPs are bound anyway, and it's not like greens are really worth anything. The only things that you can really profit off "needing" are the implants and I have actually never seen one ninja'd (probably because most people are wearing BH implants anyhow, and they don't check to see that it's a BoE), and I do a LOT of FPs. I guess I've been lucky.

EDIT: Making greed-ed pieces BoL is a fantastic idea. Yes Pls.
<Death and Taxes>
Prophecy of the Five

Beslley - dps sorc | Arenatah - snoipah | Nef'arian - dps op | Alexstraza - slinger
KHEM VAL IS MY COPILOT

Gronkaarr's Avatar


Gronkaarr
02.08.2013 , 12:10 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post

For example, with about 6 others, we killed a world boss.... it gave, If I can remember, 2 or 3 drops, none for my Jugg, but I choose need and won a pair of boots with Aim.... Yes, I worked JUST as hard to beat the boss, so I deserve a reward... i sold them for 250k on GTN. Did I break the honor code for myself, yes... but all that guilt went away after I made a nice profit, I then realized, why am I trying to be so nice when I NEED to make money.... I do not want limits on what I can win and sell, but would like to see ALL in a group do well for their effort.

However, I also feel bad for people that got nothing.... they worked for a reward and got the shaft. I do not see a orange drop, I see money and I have the right to that money from a sale, that can be USED to buy the item my guy does NEED.

Lets face it, in these heroics or world boss kills and such, someone will always get shafted... sometimes, I do too. Its like gambeling in Vegas, you win some, you lose some.... I stay away from Vegas and avoid groups in TOR and loot issues now.
in other MMOs I have played, players like you would be blacklisted and everyone would know not to group with you. this game has no real community so you can get away with bad behavior.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
02.08.2013 , 12:30 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Gronkaarr View Post
in other MMOs I have played, players like you would be blacklisted and everyone would know not to group with you. this game has no real community so you can get away with bad behavior.
In every MMO I've played, this is the norm.

But whatthis thread is forgetting, is you then get people who do have the base stat for the item being rolled on, and click need for it, because it's their class, even if they already have better gear.

It's my class! Therefore I need it! I'll then sell it on the market.

While I don't ninja loot in PuG, I also just get my guild and/or friends to join up with me, and then run the FP I want the gear on, that isn't part of my class, for the sole purpose of me getting the drop (if it drops).

Like a friend and I ran BT non-stop untill I got the Marauder Tunic, so I could have the look I want on the character I was playing. Didn't need the mods int he item, but I needed Custom Item (it's just best way to go imo) and that was the one that I love the look of.

But I knew if I ran it with a PuG if I needed on an orange item I could and would use (id argue needed an orange item, but Im sure people would say "you can use any orange item"), but would have to strip out the mods to put the ones I could use, I'd likely get complaints from someone.

justiceface's Avatar


justiceface
02.08.2013 , 12:37 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
I understand what you are saying.... Good thing I play this like a RPG, so my need for grouping is very limited.

like I also mention though, why should ONE person get the goodie and another does not? Is walking away without anything good? Who is to say, that person that has the proper drop for their class wont also sell it for 250k? So, in a way, they got a 250k pay for a fight and others do not? Was it fair for me to take the drop? Thats is up for debate...

I have Armor I like the look of, so even for my guy, if I get a orange drop, I sell it. In reality, its not a fair system, so in a way, I can understand the lack of fairness for loot.... both sides have a valid point.

Now for life after 50, if I do get into it, I will go with the "HONOR' system.... but I will avoid groups as much as I can, I play this game like its KOTOR3, the mmo part, its just a side feature I am not sure I will use much anyway. My wife and I tried a Guild, to us, it did not feel like we wanted that in our game... maybe its our age, I am 44, she is 43 and we grew up playing single player RPG's and never really got into anything MMO.

However, we are loving playing together, so we like it as a RPG that 2 can play... Obviously, after lvl 50, we probably have to play it like a MMO to enjoy it, we will see. I am working on avoiding that part and seeing what we can enjoy without needing to be in huge groups.

I can understand both sides.
You understand both sides but still behave poorly, which means you are the worse kind of person to play with.
Just stick to solo content or two man heroics with your wife, honestly you'll end up on so many ignore lists it will probably be your only option.

astrobearx's Avatar


astrobearx
02.08.2013 , 01:11 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlon_Nabarlly View Post
From my understanding they did individual loot bags in beta, testers didn't like it so they reverted to the more classic need/greed system.

All I want is for need to be smart and disallow needing unless the item has the character's main stat on it.

gosh darnit!!!!!


another thing beta testers ruin in this game (the first was removing the ability to kill companions)

Themanthatisi's Avatar


Themanthatisi
02.11.2013 , 10:58 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by justiceface View Post
You understand both sides but still behave poorly, which means you are the worse kind of person to play with.
Just stick to solo content or two man heroics with your wife, honestly you'll end up on so many ignore lists it will probably be your only option.
I have to laugh because my msg is not read properly or my wording sucks... on only 2 occasions I choose Need and they were both for a WB where the others were higher level, as was I. My wife and I can do Heroic 4's without others and yes, we get to keep ALL the loot and will keep avoiding team play until the system does a better job of rewarding.

Its the unbalance of drops that keep us from group play, I am not interested in doing many to come out with one or 2 green drops... I rather pass on them and turn down offers many times from people wanting to join us.. With me a Tank and her a Healer on both factions, we are asked constantly and we continue to say no, itís better than watching someone else make out with a bunch of loot and her and I scrape up the crumbs.

When we play with others, we follow the honor system except for the 2 occasions for WB.... but on a WB where we were all higher level than the gear, guess what...I choose NEED. Just because someone is of the class donít give them the right to the gear they canít use anyway and will just sell on GTN....

On another WB, it happened another needed the item as they were low enough level to use it and I GAVE it to them.... When you have a huge OPS I am not going to figure out who actually needed it for real, but if you ask, you shall receive as long as you genuinely needed it. If itís a lvl 24 drop and youíre a 50, to me... FAIR GAME! This was a PUG as wellÖ. If I was in a Guild, which by choice we do not want to be in oneÖyet, then that will change to the full honor system, even for a WB where we are all higher lvl than the drop.

just last night we had another going PLEASE a few times to want to join us, yes it would help get through a Heroic 4 with them, but If we can do it without the help even if it takes longer and we have to die a few more times, so what... the pay, when itís over, selling the drops is worth the extra effort.

I never said the need/greed honor system is bad.... the SYSTEM itself, in the game, is not fair so we play accordingly to the system that is designed into the game. Letís face it, one ORANGE drop for 8 people in a OPS is insane anyway, that means 7 people got nothing with selling or using. What is fair about that?

Maybe the system should be looked at instead of these posts every week with the same complaint, which are ALSO valid complaints.

I never stated being fair in a group is wrongÖ. So, we will avoid as many as possible and when we join them after 50, when we are all equally high level in high lvl areas, for the sake of community, we will use the need/greed according to the rules we set before the mission with the others in the group.

For example, if we were to have another join us for a Heroic 4, we would greed when necessary, but I can admit, I donít like sharing those very limited Orange drops.

RorCorps's Avatar


RorCorps
02.11.2013 , 11:13 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
I have to laugh... on only 2 ocasions I choose Need and my wife and I can do Heroic 4's without others and yes, we get to keep ALL the loot and will keep avoiding team play until the system does a better job of rewarding. Its the unbalance of drops that keep us from group play, I am not interested in doing many to come out with one or 2 green drops... I rather pass on them and turn down offers many times.. With me a Tank and her a Healer on both factions, we are asked consytantly and we continue to say no, its better then watching soneone else make out with a bunch of loot while others get the shaft....

When we play with others, we follow the honor system except for the 2 ocasions for WB.... but on a WB where we were all higher level than the gear, guess what...I choose NEED. Just because someone is of the class dont give them the right to the gear they cant use anyway and will just sell on GTN.... On another WB, it happened another needed the item as they were low enough level to use it and I GAVE it to them.... When you have a huge OPS I am not going to figure out who actually needed it for real, but if you ask, you shall receive as long as you genuinely needed it. If its a lvl 24 drop and your a 50, to me... FAIR GAME!
I get it. Your solution to ninja looting is to ninja loot, and give it back when you're called on it (IE somebody does in fact need it as an upgrade.)

It's actually a good solution as long as you're not a D bag about people actually needing the upgrade I guess.

However, you and your wife play duo pretty much solely it seems. Why you're commenting on a thread about Ninja looting in PUGS (which you admittedly rarely do) is beyond me. What you do is more likely to cause grief and annoyance, when you could greed on anything you don't actually need and have the SAME CHANCE as everyone else who greeds the roll.

You needing on boss loot when everybody else assumes the GREED roll is for getting a chance at discarded equipment to sell on the GTN or whatever without actually telling anybody this before hand gives you an advantage at the roll, thus pushing everybody else into the position of not getting loot that you're whining about.

Themanthatisi's Avatar


Themanthatisi
02.11.2013 , 11:29 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by RorCorps View Post
I get it. Your solution to ninja looting is to ninja loot, and give it back when you're called on it (IE somebody does in fact need it as an upgrade.)

It's actually a good solution as long as you're not a D bag about people actually needing the upgrade I guess.

.

In many PUG's not everyone will be fair and making posts about it will NOT solve ANYTHING. the distribution system for orange drops or rares is IMO, way too limited. Why should a WB that takes 8 people to kill only give a single blue and orange drop?
I rather take a shot at the drop and if someone was to say, hey, I can use that.... you know what, they can have it as long as that is their class for the drop, no questions asked. I wold never tall someone to screw off, its mine.... BUT I will try to make money when I can for the effort.

Now with the CM making money for gear, I doubt we will ever see larger drop amounts, so we have to live in a unfair syatem but no one ever said life was fair. Unless your a socialist that feels no one shold be riich either... If I can only use the "need" system for my pay at work... lol.

I commented in this post because the system itself DISCOURAGES group play, at least during leveling and if the system can be changed, well, I am all for it so may as well get involved.

so in a way, my solution is to NEED on some ocasions in a PUG.... You can't control others, but I can control how I play and who genuinely gets the loot if they need it. The other person choosing Need, may not be so nice in giving it away.

Even my wife hates grouping, this is how we make money (sellign orange drops)... Even when we play together (just us 2), we need on everything and sort it out later, keeps us from getting bogged down figuring out the loot during the mission. We love the Heroic 4's without others, its just much easier to deal with the loot and more profitable.

siikriken's Avatar


siikriken
02.11.2013 , 11:36 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
I understand what you are saying.... Good thing I play this like a RPG, so my need for grouping is very limited.

like I also mention though, why should ONE person get the goodie and another does not? Is walking away without anything good? Who is to say, that person that has the proper drop for their class wont also sell it for 250k? So, in a way, they got a 250k pay for a fight and others do not? Was it fair for me to take the drop? Thats is up for debate...

I have Armor I like the look of, so even for my guy, if I get a orange drop, I sell it. In reality, its not a fair system, so in a way, I can understand the lack of fairness for loot.... both sides have a valid point.

Now for life after 50, if I do get into it, I will go with the "HONOR' system.... but I will avoid groups as much as I can, I play this game like its KOTOR3, the mmo part, its just a side feature I am not sure I will use much anyway. My wife and I tried a Guild, to us, it did not feel like we wanted that in our game... maybe its our age, I am 44, she is 43 and we grew up playing single player RPG's and never really got into anything MMO.

However, we are loving playing together, so we like it as a RPG that 2 can play... Obviously, after lvl 50, we probably have to play it like a MMO to enjoy it, we will see. I am working on avoiding that part and seeing what we can enjoy without needing to be in huge groups.

I can understand both sides.
You sound like a child. This sort of ITS NOT FAIR attitude is for children. You can run flash points over again to get the gear you want WITHOUT screwing someone over by taking gear that they actually need.

You're screwing people over because its not fair, so you're being unfair because its unfair?

Great logic. You should move to China where everything is "fair"

justiceface's Avatar


justiceface
02.11.2013 , 11:39 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
In many PUG's not everyone will be fair and making posts about it will NOT solve ANYTHING. the distribution system for orange drops or rares is IMO, way too limited. Why should a WB that takes 8 people to kill only give a single blue and orange drop?
I rather take a shot at the drop and if someone was to say, hey, I can use that.... you know what, they can have it as long as that is their class for the drop, no questions asked. I wold never tall someone to screw off, its mine.... BUT I will try to make money when I can for the effort.

Now with the CM making money for gear, I doubt we will ever see larger drop amounts, so we have to live in a unfair syatem but no one ever said life was fair. Unless your a socialist that feels no one shold be riich either... If I can only use the "need" system for my pay at work... lol.

I commented in this post because the system itself DISCOURAGES group play, at least during leveling and if the system can be changed, well, I am all for it so may as well get involved.
The system doesn't discourage group play, you just don't understand the system. Needing on a drop you don't need is poor behavior and you become the reason people complain about groups. As I and other people have mentioned, if we saw you do this you would be blocked and our guild members would be told to avoid you because you need on drops that you don't need or drops that should be fair game(greed option).