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Dealing with Ninjaloot in FP PuG's?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Dealing with Ninjaloot in FP PuG's?

justiceface's Avatar


justiceface
02.08.2013 , 08:47 AM | #11
Ignore and vote kick is usually how I deal with Ninjas. You could also only do groups with a master looter setup.

Themanthatisi's Avatar


Themanthatisi
02.08.2013 , 10:07 AM | #12
My wife and i avoid groups other then us 2.... Honestly, because we do want ALL the drops... some Orange ones can make good money on GTN, and making money is important too, even if I do not need the item. Am I respectable in a group? Yes.... Because I have some self honor, but really, orange drops are hard enough to get in many heroics and there may be only 1... I want it no matter who should have it, sollution for me is to NOT group and try to complete it with my wife, the healer. Between us, we do choose who gets what and on items we both do not need, we "need" on and who wins it, sells it or maybe use it on a companion... but most items we sell.

Someone mentioned the loot bag idea.... I like that. If there was a way for all to get equally rewarded, Ill group more and even join a guild.

Why should one person, because they are a certain class and lets say 2 orange objects fall in a heroic 4 and its for their class, they get all the goodies and others scrap for junk drops?

I can understand why others will choose "need" on everything, right or wrong.... We all need ways to make money, mine is selling good orange drops on GTN.

In reality, as the game is currently..... its not a fair system when one person may get a good drop and others do not.

For example, with about 6 others, we killed a world boss.... it gave, If I can remember, 2 or 3 drops, none for my Jugg, but I choose need and won a pair of boots with Aim.... Yes, I worked JUST as hard to beat the boss, so I deserve a reward... i sold them for 250k on GTN. Did I break the honor code for myself, yes... but all that guilt went away after I made a nice profit, I then realized, why am I trying to be so nice when I NEED to make money.... I do not want limits on what I can win and sell, but would like to see ALL in a group do well for their effort.

However, I also feel bad for people that got nothing.... they worked for a reward and got the shaft. I do not see a orange drop, I see money and I have the right to that money from a sale, that can be USED to buy the item my guy does NEED.

Lets face it, in these heroics or world boss kills and such, someone will always get shafted... sometimes, I do too. Its like gambeling in Vegas, you win some, you lose some.... I stay away from Vegas and avoid groups in TOR and loot issues now.

Arlon_Nabarlly's Avatar


Arlon_Nabarlly
02.08.2013 , 10:11 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by AMcM-T View Post
Quite right!
I guess it's more of 2 suggestions then, first is for nerfing ninjas, second is for freeing up vendor trash that is currently BoP and making it usefull. However, it makes the rule universal to the roll that is made and dosen't rely on coding each item...

My Bad.
Then everyone buys gear of GTN and the need for the drops in the instance goes away. No, bad idea.

Arlon_Nabarlly's Avatar


Arlon_Nabarlly
02.08.2013 , 10:12 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by AsheraII View Post
Get rid of player controlled loot distribution in Flashpoints altogether, and implement lootbags instead. Give each player the exact same BoP item, no matter what drops. Problem solved.
Can't use the item you got? Then put it on a companion or vendorize it.
From my understanding they did individual loot bags in beta, testers didn't like it so they reverted to the more classic need/greed system.

All I want is for need to be smart and disallow needing unless the item has the character's main stat on it.

TralyanSavo's Avatar


TralyanSavo
02.08.2013 , 10:27 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
For example, with about 6 others, we killed a world boss.... it gave, If I can remember, 2 or 3 drops, none for my Jugg, but I choose need and won a pair of boots with Aim.... Yes, I worked JUST as hard to beat the boss, so I deserve a reward... i sold them for 250k on GTN.
However, I also feel bad for people that got nothing.... they worked for a reward and got the shaft. I do not see a orange drop, I see money and I have the right to that money from a sale, that can be USED to buy the item my guy does NEED.
Needing is for something that is an upgrade for your present gear for your class. Getting that item then selling it is greed, plain and simple. In fact, if you had said "I'm going to need on everything regardless of my class" you probably would have been kicked from the group before the boss OR it would have given everyone else a chance to need to even out your selfishness. But instead, you kept quiet and needed to ensure you got a piece of loot that you didn't need for yourself. The endgame is not going to go well for you if this is how you are. A "Mind if I need on this for <whatever your reason is>?" is common courtesy.

The solution to ninja looters is already in the game. /ignore <player name> and direct your guild to do the same. If someone needs when they shouldn't, and doesn't make it right by trading/re-rolling/whatever seems appropriate, ignore them and if they do it enough, they are going to struggle finding groups. MOST people generally mean well and the ninjas aren't as common (at least on Shadowlands) as it sometimes gets made out to seem.
Ryaffil (Shadow Tank, Main) - Ryaffia (Guardian) - Odinsun (Sentinel) - Mintass (Commando) - Ryaffam (Gunslinger)
Tralyan (Sorcerer) - Echeara (Juggernaut) - Cran (Mercenary) - Zobess (Operative)
Death Mark - The Shadowlands

Themanthatisi's Avatar


Themanthatisi
02.08.2013 , 10:40 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by TralyanSavo View Post
Needing is for something that is an upgrade for your present gear for your class. Getting that item then selling it is greed, plain and simple. In fact, if you had said "I'm going to need on everything regardless of my class" you probably would have been kicked from the group before the boss OR it would have given everyone else a chance to need to even out your selfishness. But instead, you kept quiet and needed to ensure you got a piece of loot that you didn't need for yourself. The endgame is not going to go well for you if this is how you are. A "Mind if I need on this for <whatever your reason is>?" is common courtesy.

The solution to ninja looters is already in the game. /ignore <player name> and direct your guild to do the same. If someone needs when they shouldn't, and doesn't make it right by trading/re-rolling/whatever seems appropriate, ignore them and if they do it enough, they are going to struggle finding groups. MOST people generally mean well and the ninjas aren't as common (at least on Shadowlands) as it sometimes gets made out to seem.
I understand what you are saying.... Good thing I play this like a RPG, so my need for grouping is very limited.

like I also mention though, why should ONE person get the goodie and another does not? Is walking away without anything good? Who is to say, that person that has the proper drop for their class wont also sell it for 250k? So, in a way, they got a 250k pay for a fight and others do not? Was it fair for me to take the drop? Thats is up for debate...

I have Armor I like the look of, so even for my guy, if I get a orange drop, I sell it. In reality, its not a fair system, so in a way, I can understand the lack of fairness for loot.... both sides have a valid point.

Now for life after 50, if I do get into it, I will go with the "HONOR' system.... but I will avoid groups as much as I can, I play this game like its KOTOR3, the mmo part, its just a side feature I am not sure I will use much anyway. My wife and I tried a Guild, to us, it did not feel like we wanted that in our game... maybe its our age, I am 44, she is 43 and we grew up playing single player RPG's and never really got into anything MMO.

However, we are loving playing together, so we like it as a RPG that 2 can play... Obviously, after lvl 50, we probably have to play it like a MMO to enjoy it, we will see. I am working on avoiding that part and seeing what we can enjoy without needing to be in huge groups.

I can understand both sides.

AsheraII's Avatar


AsheraII
02.08.2013 , 10:52 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Arlon_Nabarlly View Post
From my understanding they did individual loot bags in beta, testers didn't like it so they reverted to the more classic need/greed system.

All I want is for need to be smart and disallow needing unless the item has the character's main stat on it.
They did, but only for Operations. According to Bioware at the time, the testers were positive, but there was a 100-page thread of people NOT in beta complaining that they wanted to control who got what.

In my opinion, they shouldn't have tested it in Operations, but in Flashpoints instead. It would've reduced half the complaints, since it would be about the PUG zone anyway, during leveling progress. For Operations, it would've been a nice optional mechanic. For flashpoints though, this was and is a very needed mechanic. We can only hope they learned from all the "OMG ninja looterz!" threads and decided to finally implement it in RotHC FLASHPOINTS. It's a much better system than the extremely narrowminded "can only roll for your own armorclass" system.

And you have to admit, gearing up our companions is a pain, most people gear up only 1 companion, maybe 2, for lack of resources, funds and proper drops. Giving everybody a random piece of loot would help a LOT on this problem, since it becomes much more feasible to gear up your rarely used undergeared companions.
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ivanhedgehog's Avatar


ivanhedgehog
02.08.2013 , 11:12 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by AMcM-T View Post
Quite right!
I guess it's more of 2 suggestions then, first is for nerfing ninjas, second is for freeing up vendor trash that is currently BoP and making it usefull. However, it makes the rule universal to the roll that is made and dosen't rely on coding each item...

My Bad.
I would rather they fix some of the items found in the game. Like the trooper cannon i got the other day that has cunning. Who exactly uses that?

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
02.08.2013 , 11:40 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
I understand what you are saying.... Good thing I play this like a RPG, so my need for grouping is very limited.

like I also mention though, why should ONE person get the goodie and another does not? Is walking away without anything good? Who is to say, that person that has the proper drop for their class wont also sell it for 250k? So, in a way, they got a 250k pay for a fight and others do not? Was it fair for me to take the drop? Thats is up for debate...
Yes, is up for debate and can be argued that everybody should have the same chance for loot than everybody else because everyboy worked just as hard for the kill, etc, etc

But when you're grouping here, you know exaclty beforehand exactly what is the expected behavior regarding loot. You know everybody knows you know. But you don't say you don't agree with those rules and you don't live up to them, well, you're well deserving of all and any vote kicks and ignore lists you get into.

Kaerwolf's Avatar


Kaerwolf
02.08.2013 , 12:00 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Themanthatisi View Post
....

However, we are loving playing together, so we like it as a RPG that 2 can play... Obviously, after lvl 50, we probably have to play it like a MMO to enjoy it, we will see. I am working on avoiding that part and seeing what we can enjoy without needing to be in huge groups.

I can understand both sides.
Flashpoints and pvp sounds like the only viable options for you two as you'll have ended up on most people's ignore list at that point anyway. FPs are for 4 persons but since you have ninjaed your way to 50 anyway, you will have top-notch gear and can run 4-man FPs SM for the story between the two of you and your companions.