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Ranked WZ is too hardcore as it is now, something needs to change.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Ranked WZ is too hardcore as it is now, something needs to change.

Asunasan's Avatar


Asunasan
02.07.2013 , 02:40 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptianFordo View Post
All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.



They'd complain and want the old system back.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.07.2013 , 02:45 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
As of now there is no real incentive for new teams to start out. They just get blown away by the teams that have been doing ranked for months and quit, never putting in any effort which sucks.
Do you mean that in the match they don't put in any effort? Sometimes it's a struggle just to defend your home node and not get 3-capped. And a 3-cap is exactly what most butt-hat premades try to do when they realize they are facing a less experienced team.

Or do you mean they don't try to improve? If we can agree that the only meaningful way for an 8-man ranked team to work on its game is to all play together, then they need to work on their game in ranked warzones. Now I am a total believer that playing people better than you will make you better. But it has to be people a little better than you. Not "Dude who just learned what en-passant means" versus Vladimir Kramnick.

I guess my point is that it's wrong to put all the blame on the new teams who get destroyed.
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cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.07.2013 , 02:59 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
Do you mean that in the match they don't put in any effort? Sometimes it's a struggle just to defend your home node and not get 3-capped. And a 3-cap is exactly what most butt-hat premades try to do when they realize they are facing a less experienced team.

Or do you mean they don't try to improve? If we can agree that the only meaningful way for an 8-man ranked team to work on its game is to all play together, then they need to work on their game in ranked warzones. Now I am a total believer that playing people better than you will make you better. But it has to be people a little better than you. Not "Dude who just learned what en-passant means" versus Vladimir Kramnick.

I guess my point is that it's wrong to put all the blame on the new teams who get destroyed.
I could have worded that better. They get beat a few times and stop putting in effort to improve or just stop queuing all together. In the guild I am in we are on life support right now, we have had several people quit because they thought we were to focused on PvE, which is another point that its hard to get consistent groups running as often as possible. That's one of my beefs with wanting to do away with groups in regs, you need experience playing with other people who you plan on doing ranked with.

I am not trying to blame anyone especially new teams. I mean we took a pretty big break from rateds and had a pretty consistent thing going and barely got our feet wet before people started jumping ship when things got rough so I have experienced first hand what its like for new teams or teams that are not able to run as often go through.

Fayme's Avatar


Fayme
02.07.2013 , 03:00 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptianFordo View Post
All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.



They'd complain and want the old system back.

Having cross server queues could prove you wrong! Oh noes!!
SWTOR PvP = nerf teams of stunlocking operatives to create teams of stunlocking [insert any AC here]

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
02.07.2013 , 03:10 PM | #35
Bioware says it would ruin community as an excuse because it sounds better than "We can't do it"

And is this another thread saying "Make this game easier and less competitive"?

I agree that this game needs cross server queue's... but a 4 man group in rated would get roflstompled by any decent guild out there. So it would quickly become useless.

If you want an unorganized game with a 4 man queue... you have one already. Sorry there isn't an easier way to farm ranked coms.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.07.2013 , 03:14 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I could have worded that better. They get beat a few times and stop putting in effort to improve or just stop queuing all together. In the guild I am in we are on life support right now, we have had several people quit because they thought we were to focused on PvE, which is another point that its hard to get consistent groups running as often as possible. That's one of my beefs with wanting to do away with groups in regs, you need experience playing with other people who you plan on doing ranked with.

I am not trying to blame anyone especially new teams. I mean we took a pretty big break from rateds and had a pretty consistent thing going and barely got our feet wet before people started jumping ship when things got rough so I have experienced first hand what its like for new teams or teams that are not able to run as often go through.
I kind of know where you're coming from. We used to do rateds, and when I played on our A-team it was a lot of fun, win or lose. We beat some pretty decent teams and the matches were almost always close. When a better Guardian (no doubt about it, he is better) joined our guild, I was usually benched. Sometimes we had enough people on to field a "decent" B-team, but we never queued more than a couple of games. Between not playing with each other enough, having "wrong" classes, and sub-optimal gear we simply didn't feel viable.

In other words I have seen first hand the difference between competitiveness and hopelessness in the ranked bracket and it is a stark difference. It's hard to blame new teams for getting discouraged, and a lot of times I wish the better teams would keep that in mind when they almost seem to go out of their way to make the match unpleasant for the underdog.

By the way, sometimes our A-team and B-team would get to play each other and it was pretty cool. A lot of us agreed that we would play those matches even if they didn't give rewards, if we could control it.
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troyh's Avatar


troyh
02.07.2013 , 03:25 PM | #37
The community thing that BW talked about pertained to the LFG if I remember correctly. They didnt want someone to go into a dungeon with a group from another server and not care about stealing loot or under performing because they would never see those people again.. However, PVP RWZ wouldn't have these issues since all 8 players on the team are from the same server. .If anything it would Unite the servers as teams on both the imp side and rep side tried to win so their "server" would have the top ranked teams.
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Master_Nate's Avatar


Master_Nate
02.07.2013 , 03:27 PM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I could have worded that better. They get beat a few times and stop putting in effort to improve or just stop queuing all together. In the guild I am in we are on life support right now, we have had several people quit because they thought we were to focused on PvE, which is another point that its hard to get consistent groups running as often as possible. That's one of my beefs with wanting to do away with groups in regs, you need experience playing with other people who you plan on doing ranked with.

I am not trying to blame anyone especially new teams. I mean we took a pretty big break from rateds and had a pretty consistent thing going and barely got our feet wet before people started jumping ship when things got rough so I have experienced first hand what its like for new teams or teams that are not able to run as often go through.
It's funny you mention this but this is a good point I think for some people, like myself, who would love to do more RWZ. I've had issues in the past with being in guilds who "PvP'" but ultimately focus on PvE.

The last guild I was in, I knew they were primarily PvE and I was okay with that because finding a PvP focused guild is tougher than it seems. Sure guilds "PvP" but they are not a PvP guild in the sense of what I am looking for. They don't try to better themselves and they correlate their knowledge and skill in PvP based on regulars. While some people may be strong in regular WZs, there is a learning curve in RWZ that most of the self proclaimed "pros" can't get past because it requires too much effort and patience of other individuals.

People hate to lose, myself included but I also don't mind putting in effort to get better. If I ever do reach the mentality of "I'm too good for this game" then I'm probably done with it by that time anyways.

The other thing that keeps me from finding a PvP oriented guild is that a lot of them last for a month then disband. Idk if it's together, they are not as good as they thought while in regs or what the problem is but new "PvP guilds" show up every month....only a few stay and those are the ones dominating the RWZ scene.
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Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
02.07.2013 , 03:38 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
Ok I'll bite.

1. You say that since other MMOs have specific class requirements for end game PvP that it's ok for TOR to have the same. I can't argue against that if you're fine with poor game mechanics.

It's a common occurrence for classes in MMO's to be pushed to the side in favor of the on that can do the roll better. The only way to stop this is really to normalize the few class and then you're going to start lacking diversity because of this. It would be extremely hard to balance this out and even then I don't think anyone is going to run 1 of every class. Really though it's what two classes in this game that don't thrive in ranked pvp and it's dps merc and operative?

2. You ask what is wrong with requiring 8 people for end game pvp? It's a combination of many things. You need 8 people in a group first off, 2nd each of the 8 have to have the correct class/spec, 3rd each of the 8 need to meet the gear requirements, 4th each of the 8 need to be on at the same time, 5th they require all of those things but on other teams, 6th at least one of those teams has to have 8 others currently online (and queuing). Say 3 teams are queuing, two teams get in a RWZ, the 3rd team has to wait and hope they get chosen for the next match, but they don't know if there will be a next match. Then people log or do other things in game. I could go on but you get the point in why it's limiting in it's design.

I don't see how any of your 6 points here are a problem at all? The same exact thing goes for pve with the exception of the 6th thing. The only real way to fix that 3 teams thing is to try to get more people to do rateds. There are PLENTY of people on POT5 who don't have a team and are willing to run and can fill the roles to make an effective team comp, people are just lazy and don't seem to want to put the effort in to lead any of that stuff.

3. You say what's wrong with voice coms? Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with them. I simply said it's limiting that a video game requires it's players to use other companies software (and no I'm not talking Windows/etc.). They could create an in game voice chat to allow voice communication even in pugs. Take away the hurdles (even the simple ones) and it will increase game play.

Seriously if your'e playing online video games and you think it's a hassle to DL 1 of or all of the normal voice comms out there, you're probably not going to be good enough to actually be top tier anyways.

I'm not opposed to them adding in a voice comm system just don't let it be garbo like WoW's was.


4. You're saying there is nothing wrong with having no new pvp content for end game. I don't know if I understand your point. I think you're saying that it's fine there is no new content for end game, I'm just not sure why anyone would be ok with that. Having no new content but calling it "end game" is limiting.

No i'm saying there is nothing wrong with the map choices in the way they are for normals and rateds. We should be able to play all of the maps no matter what type of war zones we're doing. Of course I want new maps and warzones man.

5. You say there are plenty of people who want to pvp? Duh. Of course there are, where did you see me say otherwise?

Not enough put for the effort to do rateds and that's a large part of the problem

6. You say two good teams that stalemate in instanced pvp aren't coordinated because one can't "wipe" the other? Are you under the impression that in RWZs one team has to wipe the other to win? I don't believe you think that.

No i'm not saying they have to wipe but they're obviously not coordinated enough in their use of CC either.

7. You say there is a guild vs guild mechanic in RWZs. I know what you are suggesting but, really haha? You are going to stand by your statement that TOR is designed with a guild vs guild mechanic built in?

Saying it's good enough for now, stop the QQ. Does it really matter? Naw, there is always outlaws den you can guild v guild in too man.

8. You say you can practice your RWZ team in regs. This makes me think you don't even pvp in this game, but I know you do. How do you practice your 8 man team strats in groups of 4? Answer, you can't.

Well you give the whole group strats and hope the pugs listen. It's not hard to get a basic idea of what you should be doing in a war zone on a reg level, nor is it hard to ask other teams for strats on what they could do. I'd happily help here to anyone that really needs it.

I know you're being standoffish and defending TOR, but you can't seriously believe the RWZ system they put in place is adequate for an active pvp base. 6 months of pre-season? Like I said in my previous post, it is limited.
What would help rateds a ton is just more people doing them in general. With this small of a pool doing rwz's it's not helping anything TBH. If everyone that really wanted to play RWZ's tried to go and play RWZ's the whole thing would be much better than it is. Things like cross server would help this a lot. Some of these little things dont matter much.

And yeah why isn't this pre-season gone yet? I don't get it... They could of released season 1 with EWH. Would of been great.

LarryRow's Avatar


LarryRow
02.07.2013 , 03:39 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Master_Nate View Post
The other thing that keeps me from finding a PvP oriented guild is that a lot of them last for a month then disband. Idk if it's together, they are not as good as they thought while in regs or what the problem is but new "PvP guilds" show up every month....only a few stay and those are the ones dominating the RWZ scene.
I chalk it up to team stacking - the revolving door of top players trying to group up and be on the same team so they can tell themselves they are the best. Imagine if one of the teams in MLB was the American League All Star Team.

What this game really needs is a league and a draft system like the NFL!
A classic sig that should not be lost:
Quote:
Stunned , pew pew hack slash , stunned , running backward circles, stunned cannot move, pew pew, break stun, 30 second snare, wha?!?!!? stunned, knockdown, ...less stun more pew pew and hacknslash please.