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Ranked WZ is too hardcore as it is now, something needs to change.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Ranked WZ is too hardcore as it is now, something needs to change.

Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
02.07.2013 , 01:35 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
the design of ranked is flawed. it (like other aspects of TOR pvp) is extremely limiting.

-certain classes are needed to compete
-certain classes are not welcome aka, cannot compete

Both these you can find being a problem in any MMO with a competitive environment.

-requires 8 people

Whats wrong with this?

-requires products outside of what TOR offers (vent/teamspeak/etc, yes free but still, limiting)

Whats wrong with using voice comms? The PvE'ers do it too should we make pve easier (the it already is in this) because of that?

-same WZs as pug matches, aka not offering new game side content

Whats wrong with that? With regs you can get a basic Idea and strats down for each map.

-need other groups of 8 to be available (or want to queue)

And? There are plenty of people out there who want to pvp.

-two teams fighting over a 3rd tower in civil war for 20min doesn't simply mean they are both "good", it means the game mechanic is flawed.

No it doesn't. Just because neither team can be coordinated enough to wipe the other doesn't make it a flawed game mechanic.

-no guild vs guild mechanic

Sure there is. Each guild can queue for rateds or queue sync. Guild wars would be nice though.

-no "practice/empty" WZs for new teams that want to start queuing
How do you practice in an empty warzone? Seriously? You can do that in regs.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
02.07.2013 , 02:02 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
How do you practice in an empty warzone? Seriously? You can do that in regs.
Ok I'll bite.

1. You say that since other MMOs have specific class requirements for end game PvP that it's ok for TOR to have the same. I can't argue against that if you're fine with poor game mechanics.

2. You ask what is wrong with requiring 8 people for end game pvp? It's a combination of many things. You need 8 people in a group first off, 2nd each of the 8 have to have the correct class/spec, 3rd each of the 8 need to meet the gear requirements, 4th each of the 8 need to be on at the same time, 5th they require all of those things but on other teams, 6th at least one of those teams has to have 8 others currently online (and queuing). Say 3 teams are queuing, two teams get in a RWZ, the 3rd team has to wait and hope they get chosen for the next match, but they don't know if there will be a next match. Then people log or do other things in game. I could go on but you get the point in why it's limiting in it's design.

3. You say what's wrong with voice coms? Personally I don't think there is anything wrong with them. I simply said it's limiting that a video game requires it's players to use other companies software (and no I'm not talking Windows/etc.). They could create an in game voice chat to allow voice communication even in pugs. Take away the hurdles (even the simple ones) and it will increase game play.

4. You're saying there is nothing wrong with having no new pvp content for end game. I don't know if I understand your point. I think you're saying that it's fine there is no new content for end game, I'm just not sure why anyone would be ok with that. Having no new content but calling it "end game" is limiting.

5. You say there are plenty of people who want to pvp? Duh. Of course there are, where did you see me say otherwise?

6. You say two good teams that stalemate in instanced pvp aren't coordinated because one can't "wipe" the other? Are you under the impression that in RWZs one team has to wipe the other to win? I don't believe you think that.

7. You say there is a guild vs guild mechanic in RWZs. I know what you are suggesting but, really haha? You are going to stand by your statement that TOR is designed with a guild vs guild mechanic built in?

8. You say you can practice your RWZ team in regs. This makes me think you don't even pvp in this game, but I know you do. How do you practice your 8 man team strats in groups of 4? Answer, you can't.

I know you're being standoffish and defending TOR, but you can't seriously believe the RWZ system they put in place is adequate for an active pvp base. 6 months of pre-season? Like I said in my previous post, it is limited.
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Ashuranrx's Avatar


Ashuranrx
02.07.2013 , 02:13 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by mulzii View Post
i find it funny that some folks will say things like RWZ too competetive, but is this not what premades are doing to the regular warzone queue? many of these same people are defending the roflstomping of pugs, so why the complaint here?

I still believe that most people want to roflstomp. yes you have a few that will 'want good competetion', but those folks are usually the roflstompers saying that. When most folks get severe competition in rwz, they dont want to 'suck it up and get better teamwork/skills'. They want to be be competitive NOW without the pains of learning/growing. Then these folks run to the regular queue and rampage through pugs to feel better about themselves. Then run to the forum to defend their regular pug queue roflstomping, but then whine that rwz is TOO competitive they dont want to be roflstomped.

but this rant aside, i wish Bioware would do the same GuildWars 1 did: allow a taped-delayed copy of the entire WZ, so people can watch different matches a day later or something. People can learn from this, and its a good way to pass the time while waiting for wzs to pop or doing other stuff..

I am not saying that it is too competitive. I am saying that it is too hardcore, as in too effort and time consuming for most players to participate.

For example, there is a Sharpshooter gunslinger player in my guild who is very good in PvP. He could top even the most bad-*** Pyrotechs and Marauders on the server in damage and kills in regular warzone, and keep these OP people in check. He PvPs everyday at least for an hour a day since the game was released. However, he only did like 6 RWZ since it was introduced, because on weekdays, he spends 9 hours working, 3 hours commuting, 8 hours sleeping, and 2 hours with family. Then he only got 2 hours of the day left, which he plays SWTOR for at least 1 hour. He plays more on the weekend, but the RWZ times on my server are Monday and Wednesday nights (coordinated by players of the server), so he is pretty much barred from consistent RWZ participation. However, he joins other guild members in a 4-man premade a lot for regular WZ, because it is so much easier to do. All he needs to do is a shout-out for PvP on guild chat, and a premade is created in seconds and they start queuing.

I am sure that there are a lot of players out there with a schedule of daily life like him, and that they would like to play more but just can’t because of real life responsibilities. Afterall, this is a game. My point is that limiting WZ to 8-man que only severely limits its availability to most players, and that in turn, kills RWZ participation and activity. By opening RWZ to 4-man group ques too, will allow more players to participate in RWZ because it is much easier to make a 4-man group and que than to make a 8-man ops and que. This will increase RWZ participation and activity all the time around.

Fayme's Avatar


Fayme
02.07.2013 , 02:16 PM | #24
Two things that can (and I'm hoping will in season 1) fix rwz is:
1. cross-server queues, why this is an issue is beyond me. The pvp "community" in the bw ideal sense of the word died after 1.2 when a lot of pvp'ers left in disgust.

2. implement the match-making system where rating actually means something.
SWTOR PvP = nerf teams of stunlocking operatives to create teams of stunlocking [insert any AC here]

CaptianFordo's Avatar


CaptianFordo
02.07.2013 , 02:19 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Fayme View Post
Two things that can (and I'm hoping will in season 1) fix rwz is:
1. cross-server queues, why this is an issue is beyond me. The pvp "community" in the bw ideal sense of the word died after 1.2 when a lot of pvp'ers left in disgust.

2. implement the match-making system where rating actually means something.
All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.



They'd complain and want the old system back.

Frostbyt's Avatar


Frostbyt
02.07.2013 , 02:24 PM | #26
You don't need cross server que. The only reason the the pool for rated wz is small is because the larger experienced PvP guilds have rofl stomped the casual teams. If they introduce brackets or something to that effect more people will play and be able to gain experience.
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Sleprock's Avatar


Sleprock
02.07.2013 , 02:25 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by islander View Post
share a voice comm, it's not that unusual.
Yup because we know everybody's comms and we know magically who were going to be qued with. And even then some people cannot tab out and join stuff quick enough anyways. Get serious with your answers lol

cycao's Avatar


cycao
02.07.2013 , 02:31 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Frostbyt View Post
You don't need cross server que. The only reason the the pool for rated wz is small is because the larger experienced PvP guilds have rofl stomped the casual teams. If they introduce brackets or something to that effect more people will play and be able to gain experience.
Even if they did add brackets or a better matchmaking system you're probably going to still have 2-4 teams queuing at best which means either all teams will end up facing each other or you will face the same team over, and over, and over, and over again which gets pretty stale pretty fast.

They need to add incentives to do ranked.

JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
02.07.2013 , 02:33 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
I think the problem is just the lack of teams. Its discouraging for new teams when they queue and face the best teams on the server and get rolled, they usually stop queuing all together. They need cross server with an actual matchmaking, I am not sure if they even have one now but if they did it does not work when there are only three teams in the queue you are going to face both of them regardless of your teams ranking.
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Sleprock's Avatar


Sleprock
02.07.2013 , 02:35 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptianFordo View Post
All the PVP elites on PVE servers would be ROFLSTOMPED if they went against PVPers of a PVP server.



They'd complain and want the old system back.

I beg to differ and if we ever get cross server - I hope to see you.