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PUGs UNITE!!!


DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
03.16.2013 , 02:46 AM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
I think you're a bit stuck on what the intention behind mixed queues was. It's obvious that BW thought it would be a good idea to mix people left and right, or simply didnt have the time to work on it, but that doesnt mean that it's the right way to go. BW has, as far as I know, not much experience with MM systems so that could be one reason. It doesnt really matter how you twist and turn things because fact still remains: A lot of people are having a problem with it and that should be enough for them to fix it.

And it's not like people, we, are asking for the system to only match premades against other premades and potentially give them 30 minute queues. What we want is some form of filter that atleast tries to match people based on some hidden rating or team size.

It has reached the point where the tight games are so rare that you will remember them for months and pugs vs premades is one of the reasons for that.

On another note, one thing that really would help the situation, without having to touch upon the whole premade issue, would be if healers were able to queue as their role. Yes, people can respec but queueing as heals when you're not would be to screw yourself over. That would solve one of the biggest advantages premades have, team composition. The premades would of course also have the option of queueing without a healer and having to rely on an ousider but regardless, both teams would have one ( at start atleast. Too messy to have to backfill a heal role in the event that the healer drops so any class would fill that spot).

But again, I think the real issue is that we don't have some form of ratings. Good players should in theory, even when pugging, win more than poorly skilled players, or atleast perform on a much higher level stats'wise. It should be fairly easy to create a system for this.If you always play the objective, such as guarding, you're probably going to win more just because of that and if you are a healer or pure dps you're probably going to place high on the scoreboard, regardless of outcome. There are ofcourse some exceptions, such as snipers who spend an entire huttball game padding damage from a ledge in the background. Perhaps not the most helpful way but other warzones would balance the rating. Also, it would be stupid to pad stats and then get a rating where you actually have to face good players who shut will you down in one sec. Hence it would be better to play the objective and then perhaps get nice stats doing that.
Of course, then you could also run into the issue of not having any healers that share a teams rating. Which then increases queue times which causes players to come to the forums to QQ about something else.

A rating system is a great idea, in theory, and it would work if we had a large enough pool of players where all roles were represented some what statistically even, but we don't.

The current system works, players may not like it, but there is nothing about it that can't be overcome by a little work.

Of course, it also helps if people understand their classes. Had a 30 minute discussion today with a commando who was in full WH (unaugmented) about why he was running around gunnery specced but with his plasma cell on and when was he going to augment his gear.

Reason for plasma cell: He liked setting people on fire and he didn't care that Gunnery was designed for the Armor piercing cell.

No augments: He simply did not want to add them.

The same individual later complained in a WZ about doing low damage and dying really quickly.

MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
03.16.2013 , 02:58 AM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
Of course, then you could also run into the issue of not having any healers that share a teams rating. Which then increases queue times which causes players to come to the forums to QQ about something else.
A proper system would not put people on hour long queues. It would search for let's say 2 minutes and then expand the range. Most queues are often not instant, in the sense that they pop the second you queue up, so it wouldnt change much. I mean, while being in a warzone against or with a good premade I've been talking to people who are playing a parallel warzone against/with another good premade. There's no excuse fo that to happen when those two premades could have played eachother. But it would require that the system actually tries to match people based on some criterias.

i don't think finding healers will be an issue because there are healers in more or less every game. It does suck when one team has three though and the other zero.

Halo 2 was, even at the end of its' life cycle, able to match players somewhat accurately based on skill levels. I'm pretty sure that most Swtor servers have enough people online for atleast 15 hours per day to match that. The filter could be more "lenient" during slow hours just to speed things up, or simply not active at all. Even 3 minutes with filter during primetime followed by no filter, in the event that the system can't find anyone during the first 3 minutes, would be an improvement since atleast some games would be filtered.

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
03.16.2013 , 03:19 AM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
i don't think finding healers will be an issue because there are healers in more or less every game. It does suck when one team has three though and the other zero.
Queue up a HM FP as a DPS and see how long it takes to find a healer.

For all intents and purposes a version of the PvE matchmaking system is what people are requesting and it would come with the same drawbacks. Possibly waiting for hours for the for the queue to pop because it could not find 1 or 2 healers and the same number of tanks.

Simply put, people want a well rounded PvP team without having to go out and put together a well rounded PvP team.

MidichIorian's Avatar


MidichIorian
03.16.2013 , 03:37 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by DariusCalera View Post
Queue up a HM FP as a DPS and see how long it takes to find a healer..
I think tanks are a bigger issue when it comes to FP'es, or atleast half of the problem. Not to mention that in FP'es you have 1 healer for every 2 dps. In a warzone you'd have 1 on 7. Feels like there are more healers playing warzones than being queued for FP'es at any moment too....... but that's just me guessing.

biguydeadd's Avatar


biguydeadd
03.16.2013 , 03:47 AM | #145
Don't see a problem going up against premades myself.

Sure if they're any good our team will usually lose,but it's a different kind of fun trying to better them.

Do i think they're cowardly,afraid of a lose,afraid of getting stomped without having their buddies with them wherever they go and knowing they have a clear advantge over everyone else that isnt using voice?I'm sure there's an element of that in a lot of premades thinking.

But it doesn't happen that often(at least to me as pug)it adds diversity in who you're facing and tactics they're using,and like others say,it is an MMO.Keep as is.
Do you say "could care less"? Please,for the love of god,watch this instructional video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
03.16.2013 , 10:06 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by MidichIorian View Post
I think tanks are a bigger issue when it comes to FP'es, or atleast half of the problem. Not to mention that in FP'es you have 1 healer for every 2 dps. In a warzone you'd have 1 on 7. Feels like there are more healers playing warzones than being queued for FP'es at any moment too....... but that's just me guessing.
One healer isn't going to do much good. Against any opponent that is halfway competent that healer is going to get burned down the second that they get marked.

Is one better than none? Sure, but it still doesn't address people thinking that the only reason that they lost is that they did not have a healer.

That healer is not going to stop people from running around like chickens because they have never learned the objectives of a WZ, the healer is also not going to keep people from going AFK, derping around, or failing to call incs.

These are the reasons why most PuGs get stomped sometimes and these will continue to be the reasons that some would get stomped even if premades were removed from the queue.

justdrop's Avatar


justdrop
03.16.2013 , 10:15 AM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Briggs_Knightly View Post
If EA does not provide for these players they will lose them.
Put your money where your mouth is.
I heal, I tank. I want to stop but I can't.

HBMalachorfive's Avatar


HBMalachorfive
03.16.2013 , 10:21 AM | #148
Yes we premades have TS, mumble, vent, etc but a good percentage of the time i'll be laughing with my mates at some of the stupid things we do and do something uber noobish like forget to call an inc. I rarely que without being in a group due to the quality of player that our server has, at least i know my mates will actually do the right thing instead of telling me to 'eff off' and that, and i quote, "expertise is a useless stat in WZ's". Yes that was actually said to me when i enquired to why he was wearing Tio gear in our WZ...
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