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Why the consular story makes me want to be dead (Possible Spoilers)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular
Why the consular story makes me want to be dead (Possible Spoilers)

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
02.05.2013 , 10:42 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Gankstah View Post
Couple nights ago I finished Chapter I with my buddy in tow on TS. He watched as I planted my saber square into my master's face. He said, I kid you not. "HOW ARE YOU STILL A JEDI?!?"

To that, I had no answer.
Perhaps you might have said, "She attacked me." I mean really, it like you're ignoring the whole "Dark Side plague has made her insane. The Consular story makes plenty sense as a DS, more than many other. All four of the masters have done terrible things or are about to. Shielding them is a sacrifice. Not one you are required to make. You are removing a threat to the order and the republic. Even a Light V Jedi kills thousands of beings.

Quote:
By the the time I was 32ish I had already personally killed 6 Jedi Masters, my own master included, and was directly responsible for the deaths of hundreds more (that's plural) throughout the galaxy. I get back to Tython expecting some kind of reprisal... Hell at the very least a stern talking to. What do I get?

I GET PROMOTED.
Right, because you stopped:

Spoiler


Quote:
Whoever wrote this story is a moron. It's so bad it's hysterical.
Respectfully, you didn't like the story. But you seem predisposed not to like it.
Republic Level 55s - Alana, Rickta, Nal'aa, Alan, Myschal, Sinbad, Frank'lin, Angiola, Vesnas, Nightsail, Mioni & Hard-Top
Imp Level 55s - Palatine, Ztephanie, Frank-lin, Ka'Mate, Chisami, Azureraven, Curiosi-dux, Vodoun, Thofia

TralyanSavo's Avatar


TralyanSavo
02.06.2013 , 11:28 AM | #12
Honestly, the worst part about the Consular story was the main antagonist. Act 1 wasnt anything special but it didnt seem bad to me.

Spoiler


I really never felt like the odds were against me at any time in the story. The companions also all feel tacked on. Qyzen grew on me and its cool that you get to teach Nadia about being a Jedi, but other than that all the companions do not fit in well at all.

I've done the Knight, Inquisitor and Warrior story and there are all low points in those stories and you have a clear antagonist throughout. Warrior,
Spoiler
. Inquisitor, take out your master then your main rival. Jedi Knight,
Spoiler
. You need a clear villain. You also need to overcome odds. The Warrior
Spoiler
. The Knight
Spoiler
. The Inquisitor gets
Spoiler
The villain never got me personally invested.

You also dont have recurring minor villains. Going through you defeat everyone and they dont show up again so no one really gets under your skin.

Overall, I felt the consular story was incredibly weak. Thankfully I love playing my shadow enough for it to be my main, because the story definitely didnt make it interesting.
Ryaffil (Shadow Tank, Main) - Ryaffia (Guardian) - Odinsun (Sentinel) - Mintass (Commando) - Ryaffam (Gunslinger)
Tralyan (Sorcerer) - Echeara (Juggernaut) - Cran (Mercenary) - Zobess (Operative)
Death Mark - The Shadowlands

thomasbaxter's Avatar


thomasbaxter
02.06.2013 , 11:51 AM | #13
The last post I think was my biggest gripe tbh, the villains weren't interesting enough for my liking. I hated most of the quests but if the story was at least compelling I would have been able to ignore it. If you compare it to the Sith Inquisitor story which I did enjoy:

Spoiler


None of these kind of intriguing moments were present in the Consular story. The fact they reveal the first son late in act 3 was a bit redundant. When it was revealed to be who it was, I was kind of like 'ah that's quite a nice twist' but then it turned out not to be as

Spoiler


I think it's harsh to say the writers are idiots because it's still a competent story, it's just not as good as the others I've done so far and I doubt it'll be as good as the ones I do after.

Gankstah's Avatar


Gankstah
02.06.2013 , 08:45 PM | #14
A "competent" story is any piece of writing with proper punctuation and grammatical syntax. Green Eggs And Ham is a competent story. Teletubbies have competent writers. Which is where I suspect BioWare dug up the writer(s) of the consular arc.

A previous poster, whom doesn't merit direct quotation, mentioned how saving these masters was not an act "required" of a Jedi and thus makes logical sense in the story. Any GOOD writer would have reserved the Jedi Master title for a player who at least saved 1/2 of the masters and rewarded the ridiculously named "über" title for those players who managed to save all of the masters. Instead they hand these things out like candy. There's no sense of deserved accomplishment.

I mock the order, murder it's most prominent servants, bring about the deaths of hundreds of masters and deliberately disrespect not only the council but every person in my path at every given opportunity and am subsequently granted the highest honors the order has to offer.

THAT, by definition, is bad writing.

How any individual with an IQ greater than that of a turnip could defend that kind of story telling is beyond any level of understanding I possess.

knoxiee's Avatar


knoxiee
02.06.2013 , 09:02 PM | #15
it was the first character i played so i didnt have anything to compare it too but i was pretty disappointed if i am truly honest .

TralyanSavo's Avatar


TralyanSavo
02.07.2013 , 10:55 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Gankstah View Post
A previous poster, whom doesn't merit direct quotation, mentioned how saving these masters was not an act "required" of a Jedi and thus makes logical sense in the story. Any GOOD writer would have reserved the Jedi Master title for a player who at least saved 1/2 of the masters and rewarded the ridiculously named "über" title for those players who managed to save all of the masters. Instead they hand these things out like candy. There's no sense of deserved accomplishment.
Jedi Knight spoiler:

Spoiler


Also, I think they make you a master wayyy too soon in the consular story. Makes it fairly meaningless.
Ryaffil (Shadow Tank, Main) - Ryaffia (Guardian) - Odinsun (Sentinel) - Mintass (Commando) - Ryaffam (Gunslinger)
Tralyan (Sorcerer) - Echeara (Juggernaut) - Cran (Mercenary) - Zobess (Operative)
Death Mark - The Shadowlands

Willhousefour's Avatar


Willhousefour
02.15.2013 , 09:27 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Gankstah View Post
I mock the order, murder it's most prominent servants, bring about the deaths of hundreds of masters and deliberately disrespect not only the council but every person in my path at every given opportunity and am subsequently granted the highest honors the order has to offer.

THAT, by definition, is bad writing.

How any individual with an IQ greater than that of a turnip could defend that kind of story telling is beyond any level of understanding I possess.
Well, you're certainly tough on internet aren't you?

What you are clearly complaining about is consistancy. You think you've murdered all these people, and been rewarded which is not consistent.... But, the consular story does not describe the killing of the masters as out-right murder - that's a lable you envisioned for yourself. As the other poster pointed out, the story presents this as eliminating a threat to the Jedi as you saw fit. Disrespecting everybody is generally presented in polite terms and not inconsistent with a Jedi Master. So while you may have envisioned your character as a cold blooded killer, the story presents your motivations in a more logical way to maintain consistency. You've protected the Jedi from a signifcant threat of plague and been awarded the title protector - that is consistent. You can complain that the story does not provide an option to play a cold-blooded killer Jedi but that's really a design decision and not a writing decision. The writing itself is consistent.

In fact, if you play the story with anything other than an internalized cold-blooded killer mentality, the story makes perfect sense.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
02.16.2013 , 10:39 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Gankstah View Post
A "competent" story is any piece of writing with proper punctuation and grammatical syntax. Green Eggs And Ham is a competent story. Teletubbies have competent writers. Which is where I suspect BioWare dug up the writer(s) of the consular arc.

A previous poster, whom doesn't merit direct quotation, mentioned how saving these masters was not an act "required" of a Jedi and thus makes logical sense in the story. Any GOOD writer would have reserved the Jedi Master title for a player who at least saved 1/2 of the masters and rewarded the ridiculously named "über" title for those players who managed to save all of the masters. Instead they hand these things out like candy. There's no sense of deserved accomplishment.

I mock the order, murder it's most prominent servants, bring about the deaths of hundreds of masters and deliberately disrespect not only the council but every person in my path at every given opportunity and am subsequently granted the highest honors the order has to offer.

THAT, by definition, is bad writing.
You are not complaining about the writing, you're complaining that your choices don't have consequences. That's fair, but realistically, game consequences to story choices hamstring gameplay. Let's say that if you go DS, then the game really doesn't give you the Barsen'thor title or even make you a Master. Well, we know from the killing companions drama that no matter what people say, they really don't want consequences for their actions.

Playing a dark jedi should, as you suggest, mean that the order might afford you grudging respect for dealing with threats, but not the accolades of a light side jedi. Now also, there is no justification for giving you anything special for going darkside. You should just plain lose out.

Doing so would mean that everyone would feel 'forced' to go Light Side because the game doesn't reward you for not doing so. Whether that complaint has any merit, it would be made. You denounce the writers for doing their best to tell a story with some semblance of choice. This isn't a book. It's a game. A game that has to create the illusion of choice as well as try and present a coherent narrative. As I said above, you just didn't like the story. No need to engage in this pointless sophistry. Perhaps play it lightside and you'll like it better.

Playing against the general ethos of the faction is always difficult to portray. Frankly, I think the game would be better if some classes were locked into an alignment. But that's a different argument that goes to game design, not writing. The writing is fine, how it executes in the game is about the best one can expect when the player decides to do everything the character is taught not to do.

Quote:
How any individual with an IQ greater than that of a turnip could defend that kind of story telling is beyond any level of understanding I possess.
I've always found that if you need to resort to insults instead of argument then my point is made.
Republic Level 55s - Alana, Rickta, Nal'aa, Alan, Myschal, Sinbad, Frank'lin, Angiola, Vesnas, Nightsail, Mioni & Hard-Top
Imp Level 55s - Palatine, Ztephanie, Frank-lin, Ka'Mate, Chisami, Azureraven, Curiosi-dux, Vodoun, Thofia

slafko's Avatar


slafko
02.19.2013 , 05:35 AM | #19
I rather liked the Consular story. Going through it again with my new sage.

Allronix's Avatar


Allronix
02.20.2013 , 01:40 AM | #20
The Consular story takes a long time to get going, I'll admit. And there are a couple of gaping flaws. But here's where the moment of Fridge Brilliance hit.

Almost every class in this game was designed as an expy of an iconic character in Star Wars. Want to play Obi-Wan Kenobi? Play a Knight. Want to be Han Solo? Play a Smuggler. Want a return trip to Republic Commando? Play a Trooper!

The Consular's expy? Leia Organa. Ignore the Force Powers. They're just a means to an end. What are you doing? Through Act 1, you are going planet to planet stopping some crazy Jedi who are using existing local conditions and political tensions as weaponry. You're defusing the situation with words and/or lightsaber diplomacy and keeping the situations from going nuclear.

Since you proved your worth in the first act by defusing four political near-disasters, the Supreme Chancellor sends you the job (again, the Jedi are just there to act as the messengers) of impressing a handful of neutral (but VERY strategic) worlds. One of these is Manaan; anyone remember how important these guys were in the first game? There's also a planet that got screwed over by both the Imperials and the Republic (Balmorra) with massive weapon and droid factories where you coordiate with the Resistance (Zenith) to pull off a coup and install Republic-friendly leadership. There's Quesh with their medical supplies and stim factories. You rescue the monarchs of the Sarkhai from ambush (yeah, they're joining the Republic after this, and lending you some troops for that armada) You score major brownie points with the Rift on Hoth by defeating a White Maw pirate who was preying on their fleet and pick up a decorated Republic officer (Felix Iresso) as a kind of liason between the Rift, the Order, and the Republic military (relations between the Order and Republic military haven't often been smooth - remember how much Bastila and Carth could bicker). Belsalvis? It's crawling with a species the Rakata didn't even want to screw with...and you recruit a karking army of them! Off to Voss where you make yourself a Big Damn Hero by being a potential Mystic's honor guard. In the end, you have a Mystic (remember, the Voss consider those guys to be nearly godlike and they are considered too valuable to leave the planet) and his entourage added to your fleet. You can also fulfil a prophesy that may put an end to the centuries of Voss/Gormak warfare. By the time you reach Corellia, you have a ragtag flotilla in tow...and said ragtag flotilla is made of some of the scariest stuff in the galaxy. Mind you, none of these guys are loyal to the Republic. They're loyal to you. You just happen to be loyal to the Republic.

The Children are like the plague-addled Masters...many of them twisted and altered by a dark force working in the shadows to sow unrest and destabilize political situations so that the Republic is fighting dozens of enemies and cannot trust their friends. You're the guy making sure that the other three classes have the support of local government and puttiong and end to Darth Cuthulu's attempt to destabilize the Republic and the Order through a network of Manchurian Agents. You give the other three classes the support they need to finish the job.
Alylia Terel of Guild Meridius, Bergen Colony
Meridius: Offering Assistance to Friends of the Republic. World Bosses, Imperials, and Sith defeated. Datacrons procured and worlds explored.