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The Scrapper's Handbook: A PvP Guide

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
The Scrapper's Handbook: A PvP Guide

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
03.01.2013 , 05:10 PM | #101
Would you say a 6/4 is good for PVE as well?

And am I missing something with surge? I have 432 surge and companion, but only got 72.06% surge.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
03.01.2013 , 09:07 PM | #102
Quote: Originally Posted by MiralukaJedi View Post
Would you say a 6/4 is good for PVE as well?

And am I missing something with surge? I have 432 surge and companion, but only got 72.06% surge.
Great catch. I checked on the PTS and you are totally right; something is wrong with the equations in the last post. After a little bit of number crunching, I figured out what the problem is and will be updating everything in the past post accordingly. It will definitely change the math:

OLD EQUATION
Surge: 50+30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(Surge/55/.11))

NEW EQUATION
Surge: 50+30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(Surge/55/.22))

Notice the change from .11 to .22. I double checked to make sure and this appears to be the right equation. I plugged in values in my equation and saw what they were before confirming them on the PTS. Everything seems to add up. I will update this later tonight.

Again, great catch.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
03.02.2013 , 12:30 AM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by MiralukaJedi View Post
Would you say a 6/4 is good for PVE as well?
Before I crunch through that, I know that PvE players need some baseline of Accuracy. Accuracy is a competitor with both Surge and Alacrity, so how much would you say you need? Is 109% with talents/companion buffs sufficient?
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
03.02.2013 , 02:09 AM | #104
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Before I crunch through that, I know that PvE players need some baseline of Accuracy. Accuracy is a competitor with both Surge and Alacrity, so how much would you say you need? Is 109% with talents/companion buffs sufficient?
I've heard mixed opinions. Some say the talent and companion alone are good enough because tech is 8% accuracy and we can get 4% boost from talents. Others say still go for it. So not sure.

I tend to not run accuracy, take the 4%, and settle with having a 4% miss chance, but waiting for more hard numbers before I decide.

ZUZiK's Avatar


ZUZiK
03.02.2013 , 04:05 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by MiralukaJedi View Post
I've heard mixed opinions. Some say the talent and companion alone are good enough because tech is 8% accuracy and we can get 4% boost from talents. Others say still go for it. So not sure.

I tend to not run accuracy, take the 4%, and settle with having a 4% miss chance, but waiting for more hard numbers before I decide.
If your basic attack misses, it's not a big deal. But you really don't want your Backblast / Backstab to miss. That's a huge DPS drop, because in this case you lose Flechette Round / Acid Blade as well.

So for PvE - 110% accuracy.
Brannera Frostclaw -> Nightmare Lands -> The Red Eclipse

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
03.02.2013 , 04:45 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Great catch. I checked on the PTS and you are totally right; something is wrong with the equations in the last post. After a little bit of number crunching, I figured out what the problem is and will be updating everything in the past post accordingly. It will definitely change the math:

OLD EQUATION
Surge: 50+30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(Surge/55/.11))

NEW EQUATION
Surge: 50+30(1-(1-(.01/.3))^(Surge/55/.22))

Notice the change from .11 to .22. I double checked to make sure and this appears to be the right equation. I plugged in values in my equation and saw what they were before confirming them on the PTS. Everything seems to add up. I will update this later tonight.

Again, great catch.
There's a list of most of the updated equations here:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601726

edit: I corrected expertise mitigation and crit here:
http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...2&postcount=50
Somewhere in the darkness, the Scrapper he broke even
Ilmarinen 60 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
03.08.2013 , 01:53 AM | #107
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUZiK View Post
If your basic attack misses, it's not a big deal. But you really don't want your Backblast / Backstab to miss. That's a huge DPS drop, because in this case you lose Flechette Round / Acid Blade as well.

So for PvE - 110% accuracy.
Backblast/Backstab is tech though, so its what, 6% or 8% resist chance? One of our talents (not sure Smuggler name) gives up +3% so thats a 3-5% (forget which) resist chance. Add in 1% from companion and you got a 2-4% resist chance.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
03.08.2013 , 01:59 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by MiralukaJedi View Post
Backblast/Backstab is tech though, so its what, 6% or 8% resist chance? One of our talents (not sure Smuggler name) gives up +3% so thats a 3-5% (forget which) resist chance. Add in 1% from companion and you got a 2-4% resist chance.
Had to reinstall the PTS because of some technical complications, but once I take a look at the PvE gear and its relevant stats I will have a definitive answer on the Accuracy/Surge/Alacrity question.

So it sounds like PvE scrappers are only going to need 104% tech accuracy from gear. Is that right?
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
03.08.2013 , 02:08 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
Had to reinstall the PTS because of some technical complications, but once I take a look at the PvE gear and its relevant stats I will have a definitive answer on the Accuracy/Surge/Alacrity question.

So it sounds like PvE scrappers are only going to need 104% tech accuracy from gear. Is that right?
3% from the talent +1% for companions. I think its 8% resist chance so 104% from gear. IF we assume that the accuracy drop of only 4% outweighs the stat gain. Which is what I wish to know.

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
03.11.2013 , 01:34 PM | #110
Quote: Originally Posted by MiralukaJedi View Post
3% from the talent +1% for companions. I think its 8% resist chance so 104% from gear. IF we assume that the accuracy drop of only 4% outweighs the stat gain. Which is what I wish to know.
Finally got around to running this. I was actually somewhat surprised at the results.

Accuracy/Surge/Alacrity are all on the same Enhancement, which makes the test a lot easier than if they were spread around. I assumed a base accuracy of 104% and a base crit of 35%. Surge, Alacrity, and Accuracy were all variable depending on the configuration of gear. I only looked at Tech damage values. To factor in Accuracy, I multiplied the final expected damage value by (1-ResistChance) to reflect the small chance that a target resists the attack. For example, Backblast had an expected value of around 4200 in the simulation. But factoring if we factored in a base accuracy of just 104% against a boss with 8% resistance, then 4% of our attacks would get resisted. That modifies the expected value to 4200*.96 = 4032.

(NOTE: The all assumes that the boss base resistance is 8%. If it is actually 6% that would change everything. But it's an easy fix if I got that value wrong)

So with that in mind, I tested out the following configurations of Accuracy/Surge/Alacrity

1 Accuracy Enhancement + (9/0 --> 0/9 Surge/Alacrity)
2 Accuracy Enhancements + (8/0 --> 0/8 Surge/Alacrity)
3 Accuracy Enhancements + (7/0 --> 0/7 Surge/Alacrity)
4 Accuracy Enhancements + (6/0 --> 0/6 Surge/Alacrity)

I computed DPS values taking into account the increased crit damage from Surge, the decreased GCD + Energy Regen from Alacrity, and the resist chance reduction from Accuracy.

Surprisingly, the highest DPS value was:
4 Accuracy Enhancements (Accuracy Rating 316 --> 108% Accuracy)
3 Surge Enhancements (Surge Rating 180 --> 61.88% Surge)
3 Alacrity Enhancements (Alacrity Rating 180 --> 2.55% GCD Reduction)


In my simulation, this configuration led to DPS values that were only 4 or so points higher than a configuration with 3 Accuracy, 3 Surge, and 4 Alacrity Enhancements, which was itself only 1 DPS more than a 3 Accuracy, 4 Surge, and 3 Alacrity gearing.

Ultimately, It turns out that the small 1-4% chance to resist an attack has a huge impact on damage over the long run (any PvE player probably knew this, but it came as a bit of a surprise to me as a pure PvP guy). If you don't maximize accuracy, even that 1% reduction to overall damage is not outweighed by any comparable increases in Surge and/or Alacrity. Again, this assumes a base boss resistance of 8%, so with our base 104% accuracy that amounts to an effective base resistance of 4%.

Let me know if you have any questions about the process or the numbers.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---