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Shadow Tank @ Lost Island


thomasbaxter's Avatar


thomasbaxter
02.04.2013 , 03:59 PM | #21
Is this the boss with all the fire coming from the grills etc etc? If so I have not been able to heal on this fp yet....only HM has ever popped tbh but it just seems impossible....

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
02.04.2013 , 04:14 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
And i said "PROBABLY" about the healer But his stats seem right and that boss doesn't ask anything special about tanking, just keep him and stay out of the circles. As a shadow, he cannot do anything more than "keep the debuffs and auto-heal when he has 3 charges" and "Deflexion if he's low".
Well from the healer side it doesn't ask anything special about healing either, I didn't even know the Putrid Shaclaw was even a mini boss until this thread. I have never seen anyone die there, in PUGs or Guild runs. I have even done that fight with the healer afk on a guild run with a shadow tank. The only healing being done was from his relic and 2 watchmen. So I am at a loss, how anyone could get unlucky enough to get 6 groups in a row die on a mini boss. Even if you were not using healer 6 times in a row seems a little extreme.

I will also say I dps the hell out of that fight on my sawbones, I drop flyby right at the pull, there is nothing there to put a extreme burden on the healer. Although I will say I over heal every fight so Tank is already getting big heals when and if they hit 80%.

SleepyKing's Avatar


SleepyKing
02.04.2013 , 04:23 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by thomasbaxter View Post
Is this the boss with all the fire coming from the grills etc etc? If so I have not been able to heal on this fp yet....only HM has ever popped tbh but it just seems impossible....
No the first "mini" boss, the shaclaw. He hits very, very hard and can be a challenge to heal through.

In response to the OP, shadows have the weakest passive mitigation of all the tanks and tend to take a lot more damage if they don't use their active mitigation and self heals properly. This can overwhelm the healer at times, especially on a boss that does massive hits like the shaclaw. A sage healer and shadow tank is the worst possible combination for this guy (sage healers have awesome AoE heals, but weaker single-target heals than scoundrels and commandos; on the shaclaw, the only person who should be taking damage is the tank).

It's impossible to know who's to blame. Maybe the DPS didn't kill the mini-shaclaws first, letting them chew away at the healer and forcing the healer to use GCDs for self-healing. Maybe they couldn't bring the shaclaw down fast enough. Maybe the healer had a bad rotation or insufficient gear for the FP. Maybe you were undergeared or didn't hit your rotation. Maybe somebody kept standing in the acid on the ground. Maybe a bit of everything.

LI is definitely frustrating to pug. Not only is a challenging, mechanics-heavy FP, a lot of players rage quit at the first sign of trouble. This forces the pug to either quit the FP or hang about waiting for a replacement. I know I'm always nervous when I try to pug it, knowing there's a good chance that someone will quit before we finish if things don't go smoothly, wasting a lot of time and possibly a good chunk of money on repair bills for no reward or satisfaction.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
02.04.2013 , 05:17 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by SleepyKing View Post
sage healers have awesome AoE heals, but weaker single-target heals than scoundrels and commandos
That's not really true. If a Sage is allowed to stand still and play turret healer, they can put up virtually identical ST healing numbers to a Commando or Scoundrel. The only time a Sage is truly disadvantaged is when they are forced to move around (which can sometimes happen on the shaclaw if those yellow circles decide they just don't like someone) because they only have 2 instant-cast heals, which are support mechanisms and not primary healing mechanisms for them (Rejuvenate, which is used before other heals are cast to buff/augment those heals, and Force Armor, which applies a rather lengthy debuff when it's applied so it doesn't do the job of mobile ST healing very effectively).
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Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
02.04.2013 , 05:35 PM | #25
The first question that popped into my head was "was Incinerate getting interrupted?"
It's best for tanks to take that job too since the DPS often have to switch off the boss to kill adds.

Also, dps have some degree of responsibility in minimizing damage in there by eliminating adds quickly, not standing in fire, and placing the energy coils in good places so that people don't get trapped by them .
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Kabolt's Avatar


Kabolt
02.04.2013 , 11:39 PM | #26
It is one thing to read up on tanking, but it's another to try and set it in stone, like the rotations for example.
Every boss is different, therefore you should as a tank be able to change and adapt, as well as read the different situations correctly, tanking is never about how much damage you can take...........

it's about how much control and manipulation you can assert over a given situation.

Put it this way, I once read a quote on this forum, which simply said...

If DPS is poetry, then Healing is an art form and Tanking is strategy.

With that in mind it is important to understand your class, understanding comes from practice and knowledge, knowledge is gained via learning and practice, and learning is gained via study.

So use Fraps to study the fight and note the mechanic timings as well as your own, also it is essential to fully read and understand your skills tree, now you may be thinking this is a little in your face, but this is important as there are hidden combinations to be learned.

Now if I may, I would like to use this guys statement as an example of what never to do.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
Hmmmm ...... lol ? Using a taunt as 2nd spell = noob. yes, noob.

Kinetic Ward just before engaging
Engaging with Force Pull during Force speed to reach the boss
Project
Slow Time
Force Breach
Double attack
Project
Force Potency
Telekinetic Throw

And now, if you want to be SURE to keep the boss, Mind Control, but you probably don't need it, unless your DPS are overgeared and without guard.
The first mistake he has made is to try to elevate his status on this thread by insulting me, what he has failed to understand is that as a tank, I get beat up for fun, I therefore have no ego to bruise, therefore this first statement is a complete waste of time.

The second mistake is to open this particular fight with Force Pull (cooldown 45 seconds) and Force Speed (cooldown 20 seconds), this person is putting himself before the group.

Force pull may be required to pull an add off the healer or if an add has targeted you, then pull him in and kill him.

Force speed should be saved till later in the fight, since this boss will impair your movement by at least 50%, you may also find your cooldown timers slowing, activating force speed will de-buff you straight away.

Rotations are something you really need to workout and experiment with, some tanks will tell you blah, blah, blah, I say read, listen and learn, but do your own homework.

I prefer to open this particular fight with Slow Time, I can do this from the rocks giving me first strike. It reduces the groups damage taken by 5%, has an aoe range of 10 meters and reduces the movement speed by 30%. Also Force Break helps, but it stands to reason that the attack speed is also reduced, it lasts for 15 seconds with an 8 second cooldown.

The most important thing about slow time is that it gives you one stack of Harnessed Shadows, and we need three stacks of it asap, and as often as possible, I just got my first stack and the fight has not even started.

My second taunt, Mind Control, again I use this for several reasons, the first is I get 100% agro before he has caused me any damage.
The second, he is forced to attack me for the next 6 seconds, allowing me plenty of time to move him into position and finish my first rotation.

I don't have to worry about sentinels or commando's.

The third, while he is forced to attack me, he can not use aoe attacks on the group, that's a 6 second window without yellow circles.

Then when it wares off, you'll find that slow time is still in effect and that the yellow circles are reduced in numbers and frequency.

As I have said before it just takes time and practice to be a decent tank. Wiping is just practice for the next time.

RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
02.04.2013 , 11:57 PM | #27
Just to prevent confusion, technically he is a mini boss. True bosses drop tiered gear and mini bosses do not. Just help prevent confusion.

I have done this fight in all roles in gear from Tionese to Dread Guard. Sometimes you can die just from bad luck letting several hits of his massive spike damage through (yes 6.7K is not unheard of). Your gear and stats are perfectly appropriate for this fight and unless you are standing in yellow circles or losing aggro, you are doing your job fine.

The times where I run into problems is when the DPS do not kill the little guys first (as DPS should almost always do) and beat on the tank/healer or when the healer decides everything is fine and thinks they have time to DPS. As long as the DPS kill the adds and the healer then can do nothing but pump heals into you the fight is easy. All it takes is one role not doing what they are supposed to and things fall apart.

Shadow/Assasin tanking is my favorite class in the game so far. The important thing to remember is that if you stacks of Kinetic/Dark ward are not being consumed it is a force/tech attack this is bypassing shield/absorb and therefore resilience is your friend. If it is being consumed, deflection is your friend. Pay attention and use the appropriate CD.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
02.05.2013 , 04:21 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Kabolt View Post
The first mistake he has made is to try to elevate his status on this thread by insulting me, what he has failed to understand is that as a tank, I get beat up for fun, I therefore have no ego to bruise, therefore this first statement is a complete waste of time.
No comment. Seriously, no comment Go farm KP SM untill you can REALLY tank.

Quote:
The second mistake is to open this particular fight with Force Pull (cooldown 45 seconds) and Force Speed (cooldown 20 seconds), this person is putting himself before the group.

Force pull may be required to pull an add off the healer or if an add has targeted you, then pull him in and kill him.
That's what "MIND CONTROL" is for. And, on that fight, there isn't any add. Yes, seriously, only 3 mobs close of the boss but they don't repop if you wipe. And these 3 mobs can be one shotted by a DPS, in the worse case 2-shotted. A tank SHOULDN'T leave a boss when the DPS are DPS'ing.

Quote:
Force speed should be saved till later in the fight, since this boss will impair your movement by at least 50%, you may also find your cooldown timers slowing, activating force speed will de-buff you straight away.
That boss needs Force Speed ? And 20s isn't like 2 minutes.

Quote:
Rotations are something you really need to workout and experiment with, some tanks will tell you blah, blah, blah, I say read, listen and learn, but do your own homework.
And that's why we have so many noobs shadows/assassins. They're loosing the agro 3 times per fight and blame the DPS.

Quote:
I prefer to open this particular fight with Slow Time, I can do this from the rocks giving me first strike. It reduces the groups damage taken by 5%, has an aoe range of 10 meters and reduces the movement speed by 30%. Also Force Break helps, but it stands to reason that the attack speed is also reduced, it lasts for 15 seconds with an 8 second cooldown.
GCD = 0.75s. No comment.

Quote:
The most important thing about slow time is that it gives you one stack of Harnessed Shadows, and we need three stacks of it asap, and as often as possible, I just got my first stack and the fight has not even started.
Slow time = 8s CD, Prject = 6s. I can throw my first TTK after 6s, you cannot before 8.

Quote:
My second taunt, Mind Control, again I use this for several reasons, the first is I get 100% agro before he has caused me any damage.
The second, he is forced to attack me for the next 6 seconds, allowing me plenty of time to move him into position and finish my first rotation.
You don't even understand how the agro works. No comment.

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I don't have to worry about sentinels or commando's.
Un til someone who has cleaned the game comes.

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The third, while he is forced to attack me, he can not use aoe attacks on the group, that's a 6 second window without yellow circles.
You don't even know how this fight works.

Quote:
Then when it wares off, you'll find that slow time is still in effect and that the yellow circles are reduced in numbers and frequency.
Again, GCD = 0.75.

Quote:
As I have said before it just takes time and practice to be a decent tank. Wiping is just practice for the next time.
What do you call a decen tank ? Someone having difficulty to clean EC HM AND with a full 61 set ? That's what I call a noob tank.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
02.05.2013 , 05:03 AM | #29
My first instinct was to get some popcorn, but I've decided that coffee and After Eight spell pure win. Do continue.

TheMarmalade's Avatar


TheMarmalade
02.05.2013 , 06:47 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
My first instinct was to get some popcorn, but I've decided that coffee and After Eight spell pure win. Do continue.

Yeah I don't know what the hell happened here I thought the were talking about the first boss which can actually be difficult. Now they are talking bout shaclaw who is ridiculously easy. Only strategy needed here is dps kill three adds, stay out of yellow crap and dps the shaclaw. Not sure how much more simple it could get.