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Expertise: Max or 1200 - Debate has ended

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Expertise: Max or 1200 - Debate has ended

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
02.03.2013 , 12:14 AM | #1
A friend of mine, we're both Powertechs, both specced exactly the same (7/3/31), we got our stats nearly exactly the same. (Those we itemized exactly the same mine are better due to having nearly full EWH, had to pull out old mods/enhancements/armorings from the bank and re-itemize myself. Total cost... a lot)

Both at 1390 expertise he has .4 more Ranged/Tech bonus damage than I do. We used 1390 expertise over 1396 expertise and 1208 expertise over 1214 expertise respectively because he did not have EWH relics. That was as close as we could get it with the stuff we had. (We spent a lot of credits pulling mods etc to get our gear identical, I had more 63 pieces min/maxed so and not enough of the 61's to make it exact but a is ONLY .4 bonus damage difference.)

Screenshot of me with 1390 expertise
http://imageshack.us/f/203/screenshot2013020223010.jpg/

Screenshot of him with 1390 expertise
http://imageshack.us/f/822/screenshot2013020223011.jpg/

Screenshot of me with 1208 expertise
http://imageshack.us/f/842/screenshot2013020223114.jpg/

I then took out both power crystals and replaced them with expertise. I then took out two PvP Armorings and put 2 PvE armorings. This increased my bonus damage from 633.9 to 669.1. I gained 35.2 bonus damage.

We flame bursted each other, and only counted NON-CRITS up to 100 flame bursts each.

His highest Flame burst hit was 1224
My highest Flame burst hit was 1216

His lowest Flame Burst hit was 1162
My lowest Flame burst hit was 1156

His total damage done: 119300
My total damage done: 118503

There you go, the difference is miniscule, but there is one. Max expertise does more damage than 1200 when equally geared. You also receive more healing from max expertise. If you calculate the very small extra crit from going 1208 expertise, you might even say they are even or it's SLIGHTLY more damage. But, you gain more healing received. Now, I'd love to have a healer heal us 100 times in outlaws den so I can see the difference.

These are the individual hits below.


Mine His
------ --------
1160 1170
1198 1172
1170 1189
1208 1212
1210 1181
1186 1211
1205 1187
1199 1205
1175 1178
1207 1209
1195 1215
1189 1214
1198 1166
1160 1183
1195 1219
1194 1180
1166 1208
1193 1177
1164 1214
1179 1163
1208 1195
1160 1211
1178 1173
1193 1186
1190 1204
1189 1194
1165 1197
1178 1199
1173 1162
1193 1179
1162 1192
1195 1193
1157 1182
1171 1217
1212 1208
1180 1215
1181 1222
1193 1179
1162 1181
1175 1205
1168 1195
1193 1207
1159 1174
1200 1210
1200 1178
1184 1175
1184 1175
1204 1177
1171 1196
1195 1177
1198 1201
1175 1163
1191 1187
1192 1177
1214 1219
1178 1221
1186 1184
1197 1183
1205 1195
1171 1209
1211 1212
1156 1168
1205 1168
1177 1188
1215 1186
1216 1210
1158 1183
1191 1162
1158 1174
1196 1202
1189 1186
1197 1224
1186 1166
1176 1183
1158 1216
1179 1216
1166 1205
1175 1185
1188 1198
1175 1195
1175 1179
1200 1170
1207 1207
1160 1205
1179 1185
1211 1211
1187 1209
1162 1218
1197 1200
1178 1191
1207 1181
1162 1214
1197 1218
1160 1181
1158 1207
1207 1164
1162 1194
1211 1220
1211 1202
1169 1167

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
02.03.2013 , 12:18 AM | #2
Now I don't know who made those original graphs showing the expertise curve.

But they made a mistake.

DrewFromPhilly's Avatar


DrewFromPhilly
02.03.2013 , 12:24 AM | #3
I'm just picturing two pyrotechs flame bursting each other for an hour, giggling away at each other the whole time.

Mookind's Avatar


Mookind
02.03.2013 , 12:28 AM | #4
Do DPS PT's get to take the aim bonus?

Kind of throws it off if you didn't

Not to mention you should have been hitting something with the same expertise the whole way through. Not hitting each other......

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
02.03.2013 , 12:33 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Mookind View Post
Do DPS PT's get to take the aim bonus?

Kind of throws it off if you didn't

Not to mention you should have been hitting something with the same expertise the whole way through. Not hitting each other......
We both took 2/3 in the aim bonus. As I said in my post, we both are specced exactly the same.

Our defensive stats are identical when he has 1390 expertise and me at 1208 expertise. Look at the screenshots

4965 armor rating
31.49% damage reduction

If we both had identical bonus damage and stats as well as EXPERTISE, and hit something with the same expertise, we are going to do THE SAME DAMAGE.

This is a comparison of someone with 1208 expertise and 1390 expertise.

I have proved that with 1208 expertise you hit someone with 1390 expertise for less than they would hit you back for (On average)

You get ZERO benefit from going 1214 expertise (or 1208) other than a psychological one from having a stat sheet that shows more bonus damage (35.2). But you lose out on healing received. As more players now begin to stack max expertise, you will begin to take MORE damage from multiple sources while doing LESS to the target you are on.

MrFrezzer's Avatar


MrFrezzer
02.03.2013 , 12:35 AM | #6
http://tinypic.com/r/15wz8du/6


Graph for people who are slower in life.
Frezz

If we ever reach the point where every class thinks they are completely balanced and everything is great, I'll take the red pill and unplug from the matrix. - Greg Zoeller

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
02.03.2013 , 12:36 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by MrFrezzer View Post
http://tinypic.com/r/15wz8du/6


Graph for people who are slower in life.
This is the PT who endured my testing today.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.03.2013 , 01:03 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Megatfx View Post
Now I don't know who made those original graphs showing the expertise curve.

But they made a mistake.
the graphs showing expertise diminishing returns are correct, and really have nothing to do with what you tested. those graphs are simply visual representations for the different expertise bonuses; they have nothing to do with how different players' expertise values relate to one another in practical application.

and imo, the results of your test give less credibility to your claim that 1396 expertise is better than 1214

the difference in both max hit and total damage was .7% in favor of 1390 expertise. less than 1%

this shows that they are virtually interchangeable, both from a damage output and a survivabiltiy standpoint.

as far as your expertise healing affect incoming heals, i do not know if that is the case. i would suspect that they only affect heals you cast
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

ebado's Avatar


ebado
02.03.2013 , 01:05 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
the graphs showing expertise diminishing returns are correct, and really have nothing to do with what you tested. those graphs are simply visual representations for the different expertise bonuses; they have nothing to do with how different players' expertise values relate to one another in practical application.
This is the biggest thing. The claim is that the values demonstrated by the proven formula and the character sheet are wrong, yet he never tackles this. Maybe he never understood how it worked, but he's yet to come back to this.
kolto and corrosives
window legacy - the bastion

Megatfx's Avatar


Megatfx
02.03.2013 , 01:08 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
the graphs showing expertise diminishing returns are correct, and really have nothing to do with what you tested. those graphs are simply visual representations for the different expertise bonuses; they have nothing to do with how different players' expertise values relate to one another in practical application.

and imo, the results of your test give less credibility to your claim that 1396 expertise is better than 1214

the difference in both max hit and total damage was .7% in favor of 1390 expertise. less than 1%

this shows that they are virtually interchangeable, both from a damage output and a survivabiltiy standpoint.

as far as your expertise healing affect incoming heals, i do not know if that is the case. i would suspect that they only affect heals you cast
What has been said historically on these forums is that after 1200 stacking expertise is a waste. What I think is a waste is spending 2-3 million credits on PvE armorings that provide damage numbers that are "virtually interchangeable".

The fact is that the damage difference is essentially negligible, when so many have said that 1214 expertise does more damage than 1396. I've just proven that this isn't the case and you get a larger benefit from going max expertise as your damage will be .7% higher.

All I've proven to those reading this thread is, save your money, don't spend it on PvE armorings or Power Crystals.