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Jedi Knight Story and the Jedi Philosophy.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Jedi Knight Story and the Jedi Philosophy.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
02.02.2013 , 04:46 AM | #11
IMHO the Jedi Knight story is a petty straightforward one. What I disliked about it was that it was at times to obvious, too straight at the enemy, to predictable. However, it never occurred particularly philosophic to me, in the contrary, it was rather mindless.

My favourite story is the Imperial Agent story.

I don't know about the smuggler, my highest smuggler is only level 23 or so. However, only the gunslingers really rely on ranged combat, as others have said before. A scoundrel damage dealer will usually go into melee and rarely use cover.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
02.02.2013 , 05:34 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
Jedi certainly don't disapprove of care, kindness, patience, and compassion
There are several instances on Tython that speak against it.

The Jedi Consular may ask one of the holograms on the very first class mission (retrieve the holograms) "What about compassion?" or something like that, and the hologram replies that a Jedi must always be completely impartial and must not get emotionally involved or something like that.

Later there is a conversation there is a situation with a padawan, tasked to lift a heavy boulder using the Force and getting caught while receiving help from you. Depending on what you answer the Padawan gets expelled (a pretty extreme measure, if you asked) and if you then notice that you feel pity the master answers that such an emotion would be infit for a Jedi as well and that again one should be completely neutral.

I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Spetulhu's Avatar


Spetulhu
02.02.2013 , 06:34 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.
The Jedi Order is a bit stuffy and stuck on old protocols, yes. Kind of like some traditional martial arts schools where you only ever do it like it's been done since the scrolls were penned, regardless of whether the stances and techniques have anything to do with real combat in this age. Looks and traditions have become more important than form and function, but people often find this strangely reassuring.

akkerin's Avatar


akkerin
02.02.2013 , 06:44 AM | #14
My First 2 lvl 50s Sage healer and Shadow DPS and i have a lvl 47 JK i am enjoying it a lot and the reason for this is simple played him where he see the jedi order as the right way but he like the feel of power so i am almost all darkside and i must say it makes a intresting story
Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere.

Phoenixbowman's Avatar


Phoenixbowman
02.02.2013 , 11:34 AM | #15
Based on what I'm reading, I wouldn't make a very good Jedi. I am motivated by care, concern, all of that. That's what drives me. The important thing (even for real life) is still trying to step back and be like "Is this a rational decision."

Seeing someone in pain. Their voice, how they look. Thinking about their situation and how it makes them sorrowful. Wanting to alleviate their suffering and help them be better. (It's more complicated than that but that's the general idea.) THAT is what drives moves me to action, personally. Emotions give the drive to act and passions give us the drive to act.

So no, my character won't be a perfect Jedi. Not if it means being driven by logic to act and not driven by passion/emotion to act. The actual action should be looked at in a rational light. But the drive. The will and drive to alleviate suffering. That internal fire/drive/will to aid those in pain and sorrow cannot be a logical, cold, impartial fire. It doesn't work that way.

I'm still going to feel stuff, dangit. The drive and motivation will move me to action. Say someone messes up and gets that Padawan expelled, frak what the Jedi Master says Feeling something after the fact and after the decision has been made is just how humans can work.

I just had a dream where this lady and I kissed. Yes, i feel happy about that (YES it was G-rated get your mind out of the gutter :P) Should I go rush out and tell her? NO! No no and no again. I shared that because it's an example of feeling emotion (which is the human thing to do) but NOT letting myself act irrationally because of it.

Phoenixbowman's Avatar


Phoenixbowman
02.02.2013 , 11:54 AM | #16
^ In summary:

Humans can be driven by Heart to act. Passions can drive us. Both give us the motivation/will/drive, the Internal Fire to act.

NOW. That does not meant that we should act irrationally. I know from my life what happens when I act irrationality. Been there, done that. Felt things but acted in a wrong way because of them. Instead of just enjoying the feelings and making the decision to not act irrationally because of them.

I believe that people can feel emotions (ya know, because we're human) but we cannot let ourselves act irrationality. I've been there. Where I should've just enjoyed feelings but not to act irrationally because of them.

And if the Jedi don't like that then tough

PS: As to that lady who I had that G-rated kiss with in that dream last night. Do I feel happy that I got to kiss (in a dream) this beautiful young lady who i like a lot? Most definitely. YET I cannot act on it by telling her. There are two main reasons why I cannot act irrationally and tell her:

Reason ONE It would probably freak her out and I don't want to hurt her like that.

Reason TWO: I do not want to start anything when I'm about to go off to Basic (Yes, in real life.) Say she and I kiss in real life...and then I have to leave soon for Basic. It doesn't seem right to kiss her, start a relationship potentially, and then just leave after starting a new relationship.
Because that would mess with her heart and I don't want to injure her like that. Because I care about her and don't want to wound her by kissing her, starting a relationship, and then just up and leave for several months. Oh, and I probably won't be back to the area where I live now cause I will be posted on a base elsewhere.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
02.02.2013 , 12:07 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.
This. I think TOR decided to go with a very annoying interpretation, because they said "If we make the Sith all about Passion, we can have Jedi's be the total opposite"

And the Jedi order isn't against emotion. It teaches controlling them, thus the rules they have, because a force user who can't control their emotions is a dangerous individual. More dangerous than a pissed off smuggler/bounty hunter with a blaster.

Of course that's a little hard to convey in a game where they want to make every player equal. It's the difference between the Star Wars storyline and making Star Wars a game.

Phoenixbowman's Avatar


Phoenixbowman
02.02.2013 , 12:17 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
This. I think TOR decided to go with a very annoying interpretation, because they said "If we make the Sith all about Passion, we can have Jedi's be the total opposite"

And the Jedi order isn't against emotion. It teaches controlling them, thus the rules they have, because a force user who can't control their emotions is a dangerous individual. More dangerous than a pissed off smuggler/bounty hunter with a blaster.

Of course that's a little hard to convey in a game where they want to make every player equal. It's the difference between the Star Wars storyline and making Star Wars a game.
Exactly! Well said. That is a great point about the danger of a force-user who can't keep their emotions in check. So they know how to handle them. So someone in the Jedi Order (Padawan, Knight, Master) doesn't "fly off the handle" while having the ability use the Force at the same time.

OldVengeance's Avatar


OldVengeance
02.02.2013 , 01:40 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
There are several instances on Tython that speak against it.

The Jedi Consular may ask one of the holograms on the very first class mission (retrieve the holograms) "What about compassion?" or something like that, and the hologram replies that a Jedi must always be completely impartial and must not get emotionally involved or something like that.

Later there is a conversation there is a situation with a padawan, tasked to lift a heavy boulder using the Force and getting caught while receiving help from you. Depending on what you answer the Padawan gets expelled (a pretty extreme measure, if you asked) and if you then notice that you feel pity the master answers that such an emotion would be infit for a Jedi as well and that again one should be completely neutral.

I believe the Jedi Order in SW:TOR is a seriously stiff arsed and annoying interpretation. That should not keep the player from playing their characters their own way of course.
Those holograms are tens of thousands of years old. They aren't part of the present day Jedi Order. And the padawan that was told to lift the boulder is not "expelled" but he is judged as being unqualified to be a Jedi Knight. The point the Ithorian Master was making was that just because you feel sorry for him doesn't make him more qualified. You can't be made a Jedi out of pity. In many other cases the Masters of the Jedi Order will say that compassion and patience are what make you an exceptionally good Jedi.

SilencerSeven's Avatar


SilencerSeven
02.02.2013 , 03:12 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by OldVengeance View Post
Those holograms are tens of thousands of years old. They aren't part of the present day Jedi Order. And the padawan that was told to lift the boulder is not "expelled" but he is judged as being unqualified to be a Jedi Knight. The point the Ithorian Master was making was that just because you feel sorry for him doesn't make him more qualified. You can't be made a Jedi out of pity. In many other cases the Masters of the Jedi Order will say that compassion and patience are what make you an exceptionally good Jedi.
This seems to me like a fairly deliberate mis-reading of what's going on in those missions. The NPCs tell you flatly that compassion is problematic for the jedi because it impairs their judgment.

Also in the setting being depicted in the game the republic is supposed to be seen as being in a corrupt/crumbling-under-its-own-weight state, and that extends to the jedi order as much as anything; to some extent we're meant to chafe at the staid, formulaic expression of the code as expressed ingame.

With that said, any moral code which forbids love (romantic or platonic) should probably not be used as a guide for human behavior.