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A message to the PUG community.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
A message to the PUG community.

MiaRB's Avatar


MiaRB
02.01.2013 , 10:10 AM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
can someone post any kind of link to someone saying that?

PUGs definitely dont like being on the losing end of the relationship, but who says that players that premade actually relish in the fact they just wipe the floor with some random PUGs?

im not a betting man, but if i was id wager a hefty amount that there is no hard evidence to support that claim.


this mentality has always confused me in MMOs: "people that beat me obviously have no life and are only playing online games so they can be cyber bullies and feel good about themselves."

im sure some of those people exist, but they are more likely to be the ones spawn camping low-level players in questing areas than attempting to PvP in organized, objective based matches.
its not about "fun". its about farming comms. that is why many groups/guilds actually make the effort to do what they can do get more than 4 of their people into normal WZs. they want to steamroll pugs and win match in shortest amount of time.
can't wait for this game to come out!

NuSeC's Avatar


NuSeC
02.01.2013 , 10:14 AM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
This only applies to those who complain about pre-mades ruining war zones for them. You fail to look at it from any other perspective other than your own. Here's the breakdown of the double edged sword.... Let's look at who gets shafted more, yet complain less.

Scenario #1: Pre-mades ruin war zones for PUG's on the opposite team by better communication, coordination and often skill. PUG's get wrecked and aren't happy, immediately log onto forums and click "new thread".

Scenario #2: PUG's are so poorly organized that they literally lose the game for the 4 man pre-made. Pre-made loses what should have been an easy win.

Scenario #3: 4 man pre-made and PUG on same team.... pre-made carries PUG team to victory. (They don't mention this in the list of complaints)

Scenario #4: PUG's carry pre-made to victory.... just kidding... that almost never happens...

-The other tidbit of information that often gets left out is that there are pre-mades in nearly every war zone, on both sides. The only difference is most of them are bad and it goes unnoticed. They don't mention that either.

-The PUG's who go idle in war zones to farm coms... don't get mentioned either in these lists of complaints.

-The PUG's who shoot down from the edge of their end zone at the warriors in the pit on huttball... also don't get mentioned.

-The PUG's that go on Rambo missions and do nothing but hurt the team... well... they don't get mentioned either.

-The PUG's that put up 50K in stats during a 15 minute voidstar.... no one mentions him in those threads.... but that's probably because HE IS the guy starting the damn thread.

So before you complain... think about who's really getting the worst of this situation.

My point in this is... the pre-mades (good ones) get screwed more often than you PUG's and WE'RE the ones doing the heavy lifting. It's amazing that so many of you can sit here and complain about pre-mades wrecking your face when 2 games later that same pre-made is getting you an easy win.

Want to solve the problem? Use the tools available... form a guild, form a pre-made and get better.

Disclaimer: I know there are good PUG's out there that understand the game and this post does not apply to you. However, you are the minority. The majority of guilds are awful and the PUG's are even worse on average.

In the end... I only hope that one PUG gets this to sink in and the next time they want to complain about pre-mades, they stop, and think... and realize that it's the ones who are putting forth the extra effort by learning to play the game properly, forming groups and organizing tactics and strategies that are far more affected by PUG's vs pre-mades than you PUG's who hop on twice a week for an hour before bed and spam force lightning while face tanking a marauder.

This public service announcement has been brought to you by UGLYMRJ.

The more you know... (Insert rainbow here)

My only problem with your post....

Is that the people that need to read this are already posting another forum topic about pugs and premades.

Ehem... I have carried premades before. But, will admit it is more of a mutual thing most of the time.

I have also left a WZ at the start if I see a "certain" guild premade I got stuck qing with. Because... well a full pug group would be better ;D Sad but true.

I think sometimes it comes back to the gear complaint. you know. "Their premade was full ewh and we had a bunch of nub pugs in recruit gear."

Off Topic:
Feed me your tears... my main is a full ewh rage Jugg (from launch-not a reroll). As such, I love when I can round the opposing 4 man premade up and drop a nuke on them. It makes me feel all warm inside.
Kinrath Spider -> The Fatman -> Prophecy of the Five
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PlagaNerezza's Avatar


PlagaNerezza
02.01.2013 , 11:53 AM | #83
I don't think putting an 8 man team of guildmates against 8 random players is fun for the 8 random players. If you have more than 4 players you belong queued in the ranked warzone. There should never be more than 4 of the same guild in a random warzone.

In my experience those matches result in nothing but players leaving pvp, especially the casual players. The non-ranked queue should be a place to learn, have fun and gain experience with practice available for 4 man teams to try out new members and work on coordination for ranked warzones.

Putting your guilds pre-made, min/maxed 8 man team against pugs is a joke and I will call you out in general chat if I see your guild doing it. I typically see this sort of behavior once the new weekly warzones mission becomes available and think its pathetic. Have I done it as a guild? Yes.

I'd rather queue ranked and get steamrolled. To fix this problem I'd recommend a loss in a ranked count as win and a win count twice.

Then you've got no excuses. Not that anyone cares about the pvp community in this game. The pvp right now mechanically is abysmal. I was so feed up with it last night I played hearts. With the carrot gone in pvp to chase and the state of the warzones its not very fun.
"At last we will have our revenge" -Darth Maul
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UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
02.01.2013 , 12:02 PM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by PlagaNerezza View Post
I don't think putting an 8 man team of guildmates against 8 random players is fun for the 8 random players. If you have more than 4 players you belong queued in the ranked warzone. There should never be more than 4 of the same guild in a random warzone.
I'm def not talking about 8 man pre-mades in regs... that's I can agree with is weak and a pitiful attempt at a guild trying to faceroll someone to boost their ego. I'm not saying I haven't been in one... but I've never left until we got a pop together.

And with that logic if I have members online you're suggesting that we queue for ranked?

Not sure how your server is but ours is normally too competitive to be going in with 3 PUGs... it would be a huge waste of time. Noy only that.... but sometimes we have more than 20 members online... but we don't have a jug tank... or an op healer. We'll try to find someone from another competitive guild to fill in but if we can't... guess what? We form a bunch of teams of 4 and we queue for regs. Sometimes we get two teams on the same team... sometimes on opposite teams... sometimes in different games. No matter what the outcome... we play each pop as intended.

Rated is far too competitive to be going in without proper team composition. If we know another guild is q'ing we'll hit em up for kickball matches or agree to both go in with bad comps to even things out but when the better teams on the server are q'ing it would be moronic to think "we have 5 people online... we should PUG 3 people and queue against the best team on the server".

Glower's Avatar


Glower
02.01.2013 , 12:07 PM | #85
Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
It's amazing that so many of you can sit here and complain about pre-mades wrecking your face when 2 games later that same pre-made is getting you an easy win.
Yeah i'm reps and this imps voice comm premade, which is already for two hours here, helps me all the time! How nice!
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
02.01.2013 , 12:10 PM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Glower View Post
Yeah i'm reps and this imps voice comm premade, which is already for two hours here, helps me all the time! How nice!
LOL c'mon... are you telling me that a good pre-made never ends up on your team. It was an example... I know you see my point.

Glower's Avatar


Glower
02.01.2013 , 12:16 PM | #87
Okay. Also:

Quote: Originally Posted by UGLYMRJ View Post
and think... and realize that it's the ones who are putting forth the extra effort by learning to play the game properly,
But you will not learn anything good in games like pugs vs roflstomp premade.
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)

UGLYMRJ's Avatar


UGLYMRJ
02.01.2013 , 12:29 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Glower View Post
Okay. Also:



But you will not learn anything good in games like pugs vs roflstomp premade.
The PUGs should be learning... when we went into ranked we got rolled for weeks until we learned from our mistakes, got better and became competitive. Now one of the better ranked guilds on our server.... we got there by getting facerolled until we improved.

As far as going into a game and facerolling the other teams? What are we supposed to do? Break up the group and queue solo? Not play with friends and guildies?

And I have no problem with a solo queue... as long as it doesn't affect my queue times.

The problem people fail to realize with the idea of pre-mades and solo queue... is that it can't be separate. The math doesn't support it. 2 pre-mades of four enters a game... one disconnects. Who is used for back fill?

Pub side.... 2 teams of 4 are queue'd and ready to go... the imps have 3 teams of 3 players... both teams left waiting.

Simple examples but just one of the many reasons it's a horrible idea. I'm not saying some better matchmaking wouldn't be a good thing, but as the game is designed it will not support separate queues and it shouldn't. Hopefully the up and coming matchmaking system throws pre-mades in vs pre-mades and uses PUGs as filler....

But it's not going to solve the problem... no matter how they word it... the problem comes down to one thing. People don't like losing. And MOST of the players that are complaining are obviously not on the top tier of the skill level or they wouldn't be losing so much. I've never seen a top tier player on my server complaining about pre-mades... never. But even if they prioritize so that pre-mades are generally going against pre-mades... most pre-mades suck... and the PUGs that get stuck on that crappy team.... won't recognize the pre-made on their team that sucked... they'll only notice the good pre-made on the other team that rolled em and they'll be right back here complaining again looking for another 'easy difficulty setting' to be handed to them.

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
02.01.2013 , 12:54 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Yet when us Puggers ask for a PUG only option you premades QQ a river over it because then you would have to play against other premades... Hmmm
Premades don't mind playing against other premades. And if premades are in every WZ, then we are playing against premades all the time, by default. Premades cry about the idea of a PuG only WZ because then all of sudden our options are reduced to Ranked, or Solo queuing.

Ranked - PvP guilds queue for ranked all the time, but you need 8 people, and ideal composition, and another 8 people on the other side. And even if you have that, you're often still limited to playing the same team over and over for as long as they want to queue. Ranked takes some production, and is not something people want to deal with at 10am server time, when only 6 of their guild is online, and they are just trying to pound out their daily.

Solo - If we wanted to queue solo, we wouldn't have bothered joining a guild. Or playing an MMO for that matter. The idea of forcing people to do something solo is contradictory to the spirit of an MMO. Plus at the risk of sounding cynical, you force the good players to queue solo, they are still going to end up on the same team occasionally, they will still win and a month later we will have 365 threads asking for a "recruit only" queue. Or a <1200 expertise queue. I truly don't believe the complaining will ever end until people who aren't very good at PvP, win as often as people who ARE good at PvP. Which is ridiculous.

Option 3 - a Premade only queue, that is unranked. Ok... so how does that work? It only matches 4 teams of 4? What if you have 3? You have to go into a match 7v8 because all the single players are in the solo queue? What if you have 2? You have to wait for another duo to queue up, and then get matched with a 4some? That could take some time, and is inadvertently again punishing people for grouping up, in an MMO.

Premades cry about the idea of a solo only queue, because it creates an environment where PvP becomes inconvenient for the very people who spend the most time PvPing.

Edit: And Ugly beat me to most of what I said, that's what you get for starting a response and then doing for work for few minutes...
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
02.01.2013 , 12:55 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by MiaRB View Post
its not about "fun". its about farming comms. that is why many groups/guilds actually make the effort to do what they can do get more than 4 of their people into normal WZs. they want to steamroll pugs and win match in shortest amount of time.
again, says who?

it takes a minimal effort to get WH now. the evil people that like enjoy PvPing with friends, like myself and UGLY for examply, are already geared. we have no real use to comms anymore.

tbh, that is the case w/ most of the PvPers i am friends with on POT5.


so instead of attempting to either read our minds, or just flat out put words in our mouths, can you folks actually start reading what we post? b/c the things that you continually post that we have said, have never been said. probably by anyone.
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