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DPS Sage vs DPS Commando


Malleable's Avatar


Malleable
01.31.2013 , 08:46 AM | #1
So I have come to the conclusion that Sage and Commando are really the two classes that fit my playstyle. I've tried out Shadow and Smuggler, but I am ranged DPS at heart - and want so healing.

I have played my Sage to 32, and my Commando just made 32.

I will say that initially Commando seemed to be a bit better DPS, and the armor actually felt like it provided more protection. But I am starting to think that Force Armor really works better than Heavy armor when taking on tough mobs. DPSwise it feels like Commando is still harder hitting.

But overall I have noticed that I gave up on some Heroic 4 missions on my Commando that I was able to do on my Sage - so that makes me ask myself why. And I am really not sure.

What are your guys thoughts on DPS Sage vs DPS Commando?

Thanks,
Mal

Cleet_Xia's Avatar


Cleet_Xia
02.01.2013 , 12:22 AM | #2
Gunnery Commando & TK Sage are extremely similar.

Full Auto is almost identical to TK Throw, & both specs have a proc from an instant cast to end the CD on their channeled damage. With TK it channels faster, with Gunnery it does more damage in the same time frame.

TK Sage relies on refreshing the debuff from a DoT while Gunnery Commando relies on refreshing the armor debuff from Grav Round. The Commando debuff is arguably better because it makes the target take more damage from the entire party.

The Gunnery spec builds stacks of buff to spend on a burst of damage. TK spec builds stacks of buff to increase energy regen, and another talent provides an alacrity proc that temporarily increases DPS output.

Gunnery has an abundance of AOE on longish CDs ~ TK has few AOE abilities, but 1 has a very short CD.

The defensive CD on both classes mitigates a similar amount of damage over the length the Commando CD.

Both Classes have a nearly identical set of other abilities

Where they are more different is Force Potency/ Tech Override & the emergency regen mechanics. The TK spec shouldn't ever need to use Noble Sac. Force Potency just about forces 2 crits. Tech Override simply makes a long cast into an instant. Commando must make uses it's emergency regen mechanic to put out an optimal burst, but at a lower frequency than the smaller burst of a TK Sage.

Commando is more vulnerable in melee because it lacks Force speed as a gap opener. The Knockback of Commandos is better ~ but it's not enough to compensate. The class used to have 2 knockbacks, and that was better balanced, but 1 was converted to a root in an attempt to improve PvP.

Someone else will have to compare & contrast the Assault & Balance specs... No experience here.
~Master Telagtun Telag of Lord Calypho~

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
02.01.2013 , 02:19 AM | #3
Having four lvl 50s, I can honestly say it just depends entirely on what you want to do and how you want to do it. All of the DPS specs can put out enough damage to clear anything in the game, although some are obviously easier than others. I thought Commando was rather boring. The animations weren't spectacular and you spend so much time with one or two skills. It got old for me pretty quickly. My Sage is still my favorite character. I love the mobility, the animations, and the way the class plays in ops.

I use a balance build. It is heavy on damage over time abilities with spammable TK throw as a filler and Death Field and Mind Crush as your low-cooldown nukes. I feel like I have some versatility that other specs don't. In multi-boss fights, you can throw your damage over time abilities on both bosses, which ramps up your DPS quite a bit. Great sustained damage, not quite as bursty as TK. My suggestion to help burst in PvE is to go biochem and get a Rakata Attack Adrenal. The cooldown is 3 minutes. The cooldown on Force Potency is a minute and a half. So you can time it where you pop the power adrenal for every other force potency. You use the two auto-crits on TK throw (every tick crits, does massive damage) and Death Field (6k-plus crits in top-level PvE gear). If you use the adrenal with Force Potency, you can put out quite a lot of damage in 15 seconds. This is especially nice on burn phases like Kephess' walker in EC.

Malleable's Avatar


Malleable
02.01.2013 , 11:20 AM | #4
Thanks guys!

Mal

Washingtoon's Avatar


Washingtoon
02.02.2013 , 06:44 PM | #5
I've never been seen a commando pull aggro in a raid. I do it on sage/sorc all the time.

Commando is the worst AC in PvP.

That's what I think. Oh, I also find commando to be incredibly boring to play and too static for my taste.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.03.2013 , 02:10 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Washingtoon View Post
I've never been seen a commando pull aggro in a raid. I do it on sage/sorc all the time.

Commando is the worst AC in PvP.

That's what I think. Oh, I also find commando to be incredibly boring to play and too static for my taste.
While I can't argue with the fact of a super-simple rotation, a properly played Commando can be a dps beast.

When I'm in TfB/EC I have to be careful about waiting for the tank to build threat at start, and use Diversion on cd or I will inevitably pull aggro, even when guarded.

Maelicbod's Avatar


Maelicbod
02.03.2013 , 04:24 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Washingtoon View Post
I've never been seen a commando pull aggro in a raid. I do it on sage/sorc all the time.
This says more about your tanks rather than your dps. If your dps has to burn GCDs to lower threat then your tanks aren't doing something correctly.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
02.03.2013 , 06:11 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Cleet_Xia View Post
Gunnery Commando & TK Sage are extremely similar.
Come again? Priority queue for a gunnery commando:
  • High Impact Bolt + Demo Round (if 5 stacks grav vortex)
  • Full Auto
  • Grav Round (if <5 stacks charged barrel)
  • Charged Bolts

Compare that to the priority queue for a TK sage:
  • Telekinetic Throw (if Psychic Projection expiring)
  • Telekinetic Wave (if >8.5s since Tidal Force)
  • Turbulence (if Weaken Mind >1.8s remaining)
  • Mind Crush
  • Weaken Mind (if not ticking)
  • Telekinetic Throw (if Psychic Projection && Tidal Force && Recklessness)
  • Telekinetic Wave (if Tidal Force)
  • Telekinetic Throw (if Psychic Projection)
  • Disturbance
  • Project (if moving)

That…doesn't look even remotely similar. They really are radically different classes. The buffs and procs that a TK sage has to watch for are staggeringly complex, relative to the four-button simplicity of a commando. Honestly, I'm not sure where this comparison comes from.

Coming back to the OP… Gunnery Commandos do more DPS than TK sages when ideally played. That's just how the classes are balanced right now. An ideally played TK sage in top-tier gear can scrape just above 1900 DPS if they get lucky with their crits. An ideally played gunnery commando in top-tier gear can easily best 2k DPS, *especially* if they get lucky crits. In fact, gunnery commandos are one of the best endgame DPS classes, they just tend to be under-valued because the class attracts so many faceroll button mashers. When properly played, they are extremely strong. They are still bested by sentinels, gunslingers and vanguards, but not much else.

With that said, I greatly prefer the playstyle of TK. It's not as much DPS, but I have to put a lot more thought and effort into it. Also, the AoE in TK is second to none. This is particularly valuable in some fights (e.g. Nightmare Kephess). While the DPS is lower, it's not lower by enough to raise any sort of viability concerns. My main progression group runs with a DPS sage. Our other three DPS are a gunnery commando, an assault vanguard and a watchman sentinel. While the sage is almost never top DPS, he certainly holds his own.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Streaming Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

SWCwall's Avatar


SWCwall
02.03.2013 , 09:50 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Malleable View Post
So I have come to the conclusion that Sage and Commando are really the two classes that fit my playstyle. I've tried out Shadow and Smuggler, but I am ranged DPS at heart - and want so healing.

I have played my Sage to 32, and my Commando just made 32.

I will say that initially Commando seemed to be a bit better DPS, and the armor actually felt like it provided more protection. But I am starting to think that Force Armor really works better than Heavy armor when taking on tough mobs. DPSwise it feels like Commando is still harder hitting.

But overall I have noticed that I gave up on some Heroic 4 missions on my Commando that I was able to do on my Sage - so that makes me ask myself why. And I am really not sure.

What are your guys thoughts on DPS Sage vs DPS Commando?

Thanks,
Mal
This may not be what you're looking for, but if you plan on doing any PvP, stick with the Sage.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.03.2013 , 10:14 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Maelicbod View Post
This says more about your tanks rather than your dps. If your dps has to burn GCDs to lower threat then your tanks aren't doing something correctly.
I think you're confused about threat dumps.

They are off the gcd. As long as you don't use one in the middle of a channeled cast, it will have no affect on a dps' rotation/priority list.