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DPS Improvement in PVP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
DPS Improvement in PVP

criminalheretic's Avatar


criminalheretic
01.28.2013 , 01:30 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Blockk View Post
Im guessing your quite anal retentive
No, if he were, he would have corrected your spelling of "you're".
What we don't understand, we can make mean anything.
Hyperspace Cannon -> Drooga's -> The Harbinger

snoopies's Avatar


snoopies
01.28.2013 , 03:05 AM | #12
I almost always have the lowest dmg of all the dps classes in wz, this is partly due to me spemdimg time after each kill looking for my next target.
I look for any healers or people with part or most of the health gone. Most dps players a stupid and just go after the first target. Their ststs 350k dmg 30 kills, my stats 135k dmg 35 kills. Dead people dont do dmg or healing, my assidtance may only help kill them faster but gaster mrans they hsbe done lesd dmh to us

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
01.28.2013 , 03:51 AM | #13
Hey, stop offending big numbers. If you need 10 seconds to find another target and you do nothing until this, then i would say "do it in 1-2 seconds, and you'll have the same 300k".

None of my friends would call me chasing kills or damage, but i usually have 300-500k damage in non-huttball wzs (300k medal in 1st round of voidstar is pretty ordinary thing). I totally agree with guy noted that it's very important to choose targets wisely. I often happen to switch between targets to help/finish someone, mostly i push healers or assist our healer being chased by enemy melees.

Believe or not, but i've been in many games, that proved my usefulness to the team. For example, i had games in hypergate when score was 81 vs 111 (2 vs 12 kills) after 1-2 mins while i was guarding, after replacing someone in mid score not even once could "magically" change to something like 230-222 after 2nd explosion.

What i want to say is: believe it or not, but damage is still part of competion (with PARTIAL exception to huttball, but still in some games you need decent damage even in huttball). Without good damage your team just won't be able to capture the node/kill the ball-carrier. I don't know what damage numbers i would have gained if i would chase damage - definitely more, but objectives are always first. Few well placed ccs can turn tide of game, escape pull can save healer's life and prevent opponent from node capture after killing the healer and fast killing rest defenders etc, etc. Damage only serves the same goal - to help your team to win.

PS: i admit that there are lots of players really chasing damage/kills having big numbers and ignoring objectives. but seriously, it's far from to be truth about numbers like 300-500k depending on game length.

PPS: note, that i have min/maxed gear and really decent stats. I'm madness sorc and no, i'm not spreading my dots more then on 2 opponents at once.
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
<Nostrum Dolus> Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Walsix, sage

rainbow's Avatar


rainbow
01.28.2013 , 04:15 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by glocklB View Post
None of my friends would call me chasing kills or damage, but i usually have 300-500k damage in non-huttball wzs (300k medal in 1st round of voidstar is pretty ordinary thing). I totally agree with guy noted that it's very important to choose targets wisely. I often happen to switch between targets to help/finish someone, mostly i push healers or assist our healer being chased by enemy melees.

Believe or not, but i've been in many games, that proved my usefulness to the team. For example, i had games in hypergate when score was 81 vs 111 (2 vs 12 kills) after 1-2 mins while i was guarding, after replacing someone in mid score not even once could "magically" change to something like 230-222 after 2nd explosion.
This damge per WZ thing is a little bad for comparison...

For once, there are different strategies and tactics, some of which require high burst but low total damage e.g. focusing an enemy down (rather needed on offensive) or requiring high damage over time like staying alive and keeping as many enemies as possible busy (rather needed on defense).

That makes damage rather bad for any real comparison.... or any other stat, as they hardly reflect what happened in a WZ.

Had some rather good examples for that yesterday, when I was playing operative as DD as we had too many healers anyways. In one match, I did rack up second highest damage of both teams and highest on ours (400k was highest enemy, I had 350k) we lost that match due to the fact, that the enemy didn't go down fast enough.
On the other match, I had some meager 150k damage versus a 450k damage top enemy DD (non of us was beyond 220k) but we knocked them down rather quickly as I was focusing the enemy healers together with an assassin and we ripped them apart. All their damage was healed by our healers.

What you should focus on is considering if your damage is sufficient for the strategy you're trying to run and then either adapt damage or strategy if you can't achieve it.
Jar'Kai Sword:
Adwaennah - Sith Assassin
Evelynne - Operative
Adwaenyth - Jedi Sentinel

glocklB's Avatar


glocklB
01.28.2013 , 04:28 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by rainbow View Post
This damge per WZ thing is a little bad for comparison...

For once, there are different strategies and tactics, some of which require high burst but low total damage e.g. focusing an enemy down (rather needed on offensive) or requiring high damage over time like staying alive and keeping as many enemies as possible busy (rather needed on defense).

That makes damage rather bad for any real comparison.... or any other stat, as they hardly reflect what happened in a WZ.

Had some rather good examples for that yesterday, when I was playing operative as DD as we had too many healers anyways. In one match, I did rack up second highest damage of both teams and highest on ours (400k was highest enemy, I had 350k) we lost that match due to the fact, that the enemy didn't go down fast enough.
On the other match, I had some meager 150k damage versus a 450k damage top enemy DD (non of us was beyond 220k) but we knocked them down rather quickly as I was focusing the enemy healers together with an assassin and we ripped them apart. All their damage was healed by our healers.

What you should focus on is considering if your damage is sufficient for the strategy you're trying to run and then either adapt damage or strategy if you can't achieve it.
you're right, that damage number shouldn't be used for comparison. I didn't say that, but still i said that big damage doesn't mean anything bad. I agree that burst is prefered in many cases then high sustained damage. Unfortunately i'm not assassin or conceilment operative, i don't have stealth and i'm unable to burst down more often then once 1.5min.

You just can't demand the same behaviour from non-stealth class. I said that i focus healers almost all the time? I did, and it's the same you did in mentioned game. I just do the best i can on class i play, everyone knows that 2 good stealthers are able to finish a healer in a few gcds, and i'm happy if i have any in my group
<Reckoning> The Red Eclipse - Marine, sorcerer
<Nostrum Dolus> Tomb of Freedon Nadd - Walsix, sage

rainbow's Avatar


rainbow
01.28.2013 , 04:47 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by glocklB View Post
you're right, that damage number shouldn't be used for comparison. I didn't say that, but still i said that big damage doesn't mean anything bad. I agree that burst is prefered in many cases then high sustained damage. Unfortunately i'm not assassin or conceilment operative, i don't have stealth and i'm unable to burst down more often then once 1.5min.

You just can't demand the same behaviour from non-stealth class. I said that i focus healers almost all the time? I did, and it's the same you did in mentioned game. I just do the best i can on class i play, everyone knows that 2 good stealthers are able to finish a healer in a few gcds, and i'm happy if i have any in my group
I'm not demanding anything from anyone besides to think about what they are good at, what they can achieve with that and where they can improve, thus the "adjust damage to strategy or vice versa" thingy.

If you want to go offensive into a large group of people you will have to burst down key enemies quickly or outdamage the enemy heal. The first one usually works better as it is less time consuming and less prone to player errors. So if none is an option to you and your team, you should revise your strategy (easier said then done in a random team, I know ). Just keeping them busy usually turns to a stalemate situation or even worse a loss...

Quote: Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.
And this is even true for fictional battles in a video game.
Jar'Kai Sword:
Adwaennah - Sith Assassin
Evelynne - Operative
Adwaenyth - Jedi Sentinel

Blockk's Avatar


Blockk
01.28.2013 , 05:09 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
optimize your gear. DPS classes generally shoot for 30% crit, 75% surge, rest in power. its not a bad idea to have 95% accuracy either.

beyond that, figure out how best to frontload as much DPS as you can.


as far as what damage is fluff damage and what isnt, a simply calculation will figure that out for ya. take all of your damage in the warzone, and divide it by all of the kills you got in that warzone. that will tell you how much damage you averaged for every kill you earned. if you get somewhere between 5-15k, you did good. below or above that range, youre doing fluff damage.
some great points ... thanks mate, will put that to the test
The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Jedi

Blockk's Avatar


Blockk
01.28.2013 , 05:11 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Jherad View Post
What's your gear like? Anything less than full augmented warhero will put a crimp on your DPS output.

Speaking as a commando the first thing I'd advise, no matter which spec you are, is to make sure you have a good rotation memorised to the point where it is automatic. It probably sounds stupid, but one of the big things separating high and low damage players is simply not pressing enough buttons. By this I mean both hesitating between kills, and not using abilities back to back in an efficient manner.

After this, try to think through all the things which might be limiting your damage output. Are you dying a lot? Are you constantly finding you need to reposition both during and between kills? Are you using AOE efficiently? (Not as big a proportion of our damage as you'd expect for a commando, mind you). Many of these things are problems which can be solved just by analyzing your own playstyle. Recording yourself play with a utility like FRAPS can help a LOT for this.

Finally, find a mentor to shadow through warzones. Which server are you on?
very helpful, I like the recording idea, thanks
The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Jedi

Blockk's Avatar


Blockk
01.28.2013 , 05:12 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by criminalheretic View Post
No, if he were, he would have corrected your spelling of "you're".
thats 2 Anal Retentives, cheers for the giggle
The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Jedi

Blockk's Avatar


Blockk
01.28.2013 , 05:14 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by snoopies View Post
I almost always have the lowest dmg of all the dps classes in wz, this is partly due to me spemdimg time after each kill looking for my next target.
I look for any healers or people with part or most of the health gone. Most dps players a stupid and just go after the first target. Their ststs 350k dmg 30 kills, my stats 135k dmg 35 kills. Dead people dont do dmg or healing, my assidtance may only help kill them faster but gaster mrans they hsbe done lesd dmh to us
Yip - Your points are spot on
The enemy outnumber us a paltry three to one, good odds for any Jedi