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Attributes per class / class balance

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Attributes per class / class balance

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 08:32 AM | #1
On another thread at some point I formulated with contributions from many people the following comparative table for DPS classes based on the following properties.
  1. mobility: serious damaging while moving
  2. burst: self-explanatory
  3. range: anything that can shoot from more than 10m
  4. invulnerability: not facerolled/insta death in a facetank situation
  5. escape: mechanisms exist to escape from a single attack or a gang attack most importantly
  6. utlility: abilities that contribute in increasing the team effectiveness and/or to "easier" accomplishment of the warzone objectives


sents/maras
  • mobility: yes
  • burst: yes
  • range: no
  • invulnerability: yes
  • escape: yes
  • utlitiy: yes (trans and bloodthirst)
Total: 5/6

guards/jugs-
  • mobility: yes
  • burst: yes
  • range: no
  • invulnerability: yes
  • escape: yes
  • utility: yes. guardian leap, taunt, easily switch to guard stance
Total: 5/6

vans/pts
  • mobility: yes
  • burst: yes
  • range: limited they have some 30m hits with one being decent and the other although conditional it can hit really hard, hence 0.25 if not 0.5
  • invulnerability: yes
  • escape: no
  • utility: quite decent. enemy pull is good particularly for hutball and if taking into account field respec for hutball (hence ball carriers with guardian leap) or in some cases guarding/defence, for this 0.75 as they are no longer dps considered, and let's face it who does it outside ranked games
Total: 4.00/6

snipers/slingers
  • mobility: very limited in general, basic attack plus 1 more as far as i recall which does a bit more damage but is energy inefficient, 0.25 with reluctance
  • burst: yes
  • range: yes
  • invulnerability: yes
  • escape: no
  • utility: small-medium, (team shield although in very long cooldown from what I recall, more importantly xs flyby which prevents a node being capped) would give at least 0.25 for xs flyby if not 0.5
Total: 3.5/6

shadows/sins
  • mobility: yes
  • burst: yes
  • range: no
  • invulnerability: yes
  • escape: yes
  • utility: yes. their stealth makes them ideal solo defenders/attackers, enemy pull is also very good, force speed can also be used to quickly assist a node (although you only arrive a couple of secs earlier than the rest but still) or in hutball
Total: 5/6

ops/scounds
  • mobility: yes
  • burst: conditionally yes 0.5 here
  • range: no
  • invulnerability: no
  • escape: yes
  • utility: yes. their stealth makes them ideal solo defenders/attackers but they lack the rest of the utilities of shadows hence 0.5
Total: 3.0/6

comms/mercs
  • mobility: no
  • burst: yes
  • range: yes
  • invulnerability: partial (0.5)
  • escape: no
  • utility: none afaik
Total: 2.5/6

sages/sorcs
  • mobility: conditionally and weak, 0.5
  • burst: no
  • range: yes
  • invulnerability: no
  • escape: yes but it's the easiest to counter and you are probably dead by the time you try to force speed away from a gang attack -still dying so quickly works as intended (bubble stun is not counted as it is even more stupid than smash). Hence 0.5.
  • utility: yes. without considering bubble stun, they still have excellent utiliy. force speed can also be used to quickly assist a node (although you only arrive a couple of secs earlier than the rest but still) or in hutball, pull commonly used in hutball but also to save a friendly from a coordinated attack or pull an additional teammate closer to the node you are running to assist if you are ahead, etc. bubbles can sometimes save a teammate if there is no sage healer in the field, cleanses can cleanse dots from teammates but most importantly break the force mezzes (e.g. lift/whirlwind).
Total: 3.0/6

And the order is then out of 6:
5.00: tie - sents/maras, guards/jugs and shadows/sins
4.00: vans/ptechs
3.5: slingers/snipers
3.00: tie - sages/sorcs and scounds/ops
2.50: comms/mercs

An important point that I observe from this table is that all the classes that have been complaints about have 3/3 for mobility/burst/invulnerability.

A further observation is that there are:
5 melee dps classes out of which 4 are, let's use the diplomatic term, preferred and 1 might be considered in ranked if a team lacks a shadow (operatives)
3 ranged dps classes out of which 1 is preferred (snipers), 1 could be considered as an option in ranked (sages) and 1 which is not preferred at all (commandos).

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 08:33 AM | #2
We are now looking to extend this table with spec specific. For this we would like the contributions of the community. If you have significant experience please contribute. We are not aiming to start a flame war although disagreements will naturally occur. Thanks.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 09:01 AM | #3
So I will make a start for sages/sorcs. I consider three dps specs: a) full balance/madness, b) full telekinetics/lightning, c) hybrid

Sages/Sorcerers

Full balance/madness
  • mobility: conditionally and weak, 0.5
  • burst: medium, 0.5
  • range: yes
  • invulnerability: no
  • escape: yes (force speed) but it's the easiest to counter. 0.5
  • utility: yes.
Total: 3.5/6

Full telekinetics/lighning
  • mobility: dare say non-existent. Weaken mind/affliction project/shock are/can be weaker as tk/light. Most importantly due to the casting of disturbance/lightning strike and turbolence/thunder blast vs the channelling of tk throw/force lightning and instant force in balance/death field, things are even worse.
  • burst: medium. 0.5 (can be good fairly decent with mental alacrity/polarity shift)
  • range: yes
  • invulnerabilty: low/medium. bubble stun extends life expectancy from 3-6 secs depending on the lockout duration of bubble. 0.25
  • escape: much better than balance. force speed/bubble stun/rooted knockback are good tools. Let's say 0.75.
  • utility: most comes from base advanced class which is already fairly good. With bubble stun it jumps to above excellent levels. Might not be able to maintain bubble stuns on all your team as dps but force management in tk/light certainly allows to apply it selectively which in some cases is even better. Considering that this ability has made having a bubble stunner in a team a necessity I give the beyond max value of 1.25.
Total: 3.75/6

Hybrid
  • mobility: inherited from balance, 0.5
  • burst: slightly lower than full specs, 0.25
  • range: yes
  • invulnerabilty: low/medium, inherited from tk/lightning 0.25
  • escape: inherited from tk/ligh, 0.75.
  • utility: inherited from tk/light, 1.25
Total: 4/6

It might seem that tk/light is better than balance. However due to the general importance of mobility which for sages/sorcs is even more so, tk/light is considered as the weakest build of all for pvp.

The most viable is a hybrid built with decent survivability (invulnerability + escape), mobility and utility with a little bit lower burst when crits.

For people that try to avoid the bubble stun builds full balance or a hybrid built without it are still fairly viable options.

Might extend when I have more time for healing specs although this table was more for dps classes/specs.

Kontraz's Avatar


Kontraz
01.27.2013 , 09:06 AM | #4
vanguard/pt has the exact same defensive abilities that commando/merc posses, yet you gave the former invulnerability but not the latter.

You also gave vanguard/pt the same rating for utility that you gave shadow/assassin. The former has a pull. The latter has a pull plus a lot of other nifty tricks.

PerinnAybara's Avatar


PerinnAybara
01.27.2013 , 09:30 AM | #5
Vanguard/pt have insane damage which = utility = greater survivability, which is how it plays out in practice.

Not to mention assassins have to spec into the pull, while every single vanguard gets one regardless of spec.

Also since i saw Music Rider pull something like this to in the sage defensive thread,

New Thread,
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=581989

Muahahaa, it's not really new.
Character: Mathrim Cauthon, 50 Mercenary on Prophecy of the Five

Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
01.27.2013 , 09:31 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Kontraz View Post
You also gave vanguard/pt the same rating for utility that you gave shadow/assassin. The former has a pull. The latter has a pull plus a lot of other nifty tricks.
It depends. If you consider an hybrid Shadow, yes. If you consider a full-Balance or full-Infiltration Shadow, then they don't even have pull.

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 09:40 AM | #7
Thanks for your reply.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kontraz View Post
vanguard/pt has the exact same defensive abilities that commando/merc posses, yet you gave the former invulnerability but not the latter.
I am happy to update it obciously as I am not playing a trooper/bounty. But why do you think comms/mercs are considerer easy targets contrary to vans/pts? I am sincerely asking not trying to poke you or anything.

Quote:
You also gave vanguard/pt the same rating for utility that you gave shadow/assassin. The former has a pull. The latter has a pull plus a lot of other nifty tricks.
The value is different. Shadows have utility:1, vans have utility: 0.75. Not sure I understand. You are suggesting vans utility lowered ?

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 09:45 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by PerinnAybara View Post
Also since i saw Music Rider pull something like this to in the sage defensive thread,

New Thread,
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=581989

Muahahaa, it's not really new.
The "new" was a followup of what we have been discussing in that thread and we felt like it deserved its own. Probably these things are not new, but I think the way they are presented is. This is a quantification table which actually yields some interesting results. A long descriptive analysis although valid can be confusing with the key points lost. If you would like to contribute something productive instead of mocking feel free to do so.

PerinnAybara's Avatar


PerinnAybara
01.27.2013 , 09:46 AM | #9
Did you even look at the link?
Character: Mathrim Cauthon, 50 Mercenary on Prophecy of the Five

MusicRider's Avatar


MusicRider
01.27.2013 , 09:46 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by PerinnAybara View Post
Did you even look at the link?
Yes I did mate.