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Swtor state of end game

Lymain's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 10:01 AM | #11
Unfortunately (for some of us), most of today's MMO players don't like to be challenged by games. I've been looking for a challenging new MMO for the last five years, and the only one I've found is Age of Conan (and no one plays that). Even Everquest 2, which I played at a high level for years, is now releasing content that everyone can complete.

The genre is basically dead as we knew it.

Lostpenguins's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 10:20 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Zweijsters View Post
What I'd like to see is a tier with more than 4-5 bosses at a time.

I can't emphasize this anymore than that. It should be somewhere between 7-10 bosses and some of them could even be optional bosses if we're looking at some people complaining how they don't have time to do that in a week.

Hovergame's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 10:38 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
- there are 12 missions in total, 9 solo and 3 for groups of varying sizes
- there are 3 bonus missions
- 2 missions and 3 bonus missions have direct objectives for killing a number of enemies
- 3 missions and 1 bonus mission require killing enemies in order to obtain items
- 5 missions and 1 bonus mission involve killing a boss to satisfy an objective
- 3 missions only require killing any enemies to get past them
- 1 mission has no enemies at all if done properly
Summay : most of them are simply "kill that mob" and sometimes "don't forget to loot". You don't need to hunt the mobs, they are always at the same place. And no, a quest in a MMO shouldn't be always "go kill that ob for whatever reason".

DataBeaver's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 11:20 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
Summay : most of them are simply "kill that mob" and sometimes "don't forget to loot". You don't need to hunt the mobs, they are always at the same place. And no, a quest in a MMO shouldn't be always "go kill that ob for whatever reason".
Yes well, most MMORPGs are built around fighting enemies. Combat is complex enough to still provide at least some challenge over repetitions, and it also gives rise to a diverse equipment and skill system. Pure puzzles embedded in an otherwise combat-oriented MMO game tend to only be interesting for a few times at most.

The "Eyes and ears" mission in Black Hole? The first time I did it I was very excited to see something that involves sneaking instead of combat, but now I can run through it in less than two minutes. They didn't even bother positioning the objectives and/or detectors randomly, even though that could've vastly increased the replay value.

Another (mostly) non-combat mission I absolutely loved was visiting the Theoretika in the HK questline. I even switched to walk mode to soak in the atmosphere. I made sure to read all the logs to find out what had happened. But the next time I do it on another character? I already know where all the kerycards are, so I'll probably just run through it. Given the complexity of the mission, there's not even much room for meaningful randomization.

On Republic side Balmorra one heroic contains a logic puzzle. It can provide some challenge the first time you encounter it, but after you've got it figured out, it's solvable in a minute or two. Many people also dislike this, since they just want action.

There are plenty of missions on the planets as well where you can skip all or most of the mobs, especially with a stealth class. That tends to take the challenge out of them though.

If you're looking for an MMO game that doesn't involve combat, take a look at Puzzle pirates. It's very casual compared to most MMORPGs though.

Pallais's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 12:12 PM | #15
New *good* content takes time. None of us wants new, buggy content. That would drive people away even faster.

I'm sure if Bioware could push out quality raiding content faster they would. They have the exact numbers of folks raiding across the life of swtor and can see the effects of the lack of endgame raiding content. It is just that at this point in gaming creating new content is A) expensive and B) time consuming. Even Blizzard has let their raiders sit on a single raid nine months to a year several times. (And the hard core raiders tend to blaze through the content fast and then not play much until the next raid drop.)

Chaqen's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 12:38 PM | #16
I have raided in eq2, wow and a few other games... and have gone experience the same dry spells in end game content there as i have here.

The big difference here though is that more people are clearing the content then what people were in other games, and these people that are new to success are getting bored rather quick. Old veterans, will just roll a 6th or 9th alt... or play another game (PS2) a little bit while waiting for the new content, while continuing to farm what raid content there is to avoid getting rusty.

As a raid/guild leader, your best bet is to explain the importance of farming a raid on a weekly basis (experience, discipline, and keeping the gears well oiled), while trying to minimize and shorten the amount of time people have to spend doing it. If people cant mange to log on for a few hours a week to continue to raid while waiting for the next raid/expansion, then most likely are flakes when it comes to raiding.
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Rawrwafer's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 06:33 PM | #17
A gigantic problem with this game, you don't have to run the raids to get gear. 2nd, the majority of your gear should not be moddable, theorycrafters go and do the math's, say I want my gear exactly like this, then go get the mods, of those mods dont exist we get complaints. There's hardly any BiS gear out there like wow had, where you need to kill X boss 3-4 times in order to get it. Moddable bracers should not be better than those dropping directly from a boss. Or any other gear for that matter, we don't need to get rid of the ability to craft top end mods, but those top end mods shouldn't give us BiS gear.

2nd, BW has incentivised running the hardest content in less than 2 hrs. What are we supposed to do the rest of the week. Wow gave us raids at roughly the same schedule, but it also released side raids that really only gave gear to those who hadnt been running the main raid much, bit still offered incentives to run it. Zg, aq20, and a few others I can't remember come to mind. Swtor has released 4 slightly harder than FP raids and has given us harder difficulties of those raids, that's not end game content. thats a rehash of the same stuff.

shyroman's Avatar

01.28.2013 , 07:35 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
PvE needs real End Game Updates and not these psuedo ones where they just come out with a different mode of the same operation you have been raiding forever. I'm sorry but a new mode of a 4 or 5 boss operation just doesn't cut it. Nightmare EC was way too easy at least in 8m (can't find many 16m guilds even attempting it because 16m guilds are dying out from lack of incentives). The only boss they really put a decent effort into was kephess.
Give PvErs actual new content. New operations with new bosses and more than 5 please! I consider the last new content we receive as TFB and that op is too easy. I wish they would just do 2 modes....SM so folks can experience everything and NMM for the hardcore. Stop wasting resources and time on creating 3 modes.
I think that the 3 mode plan is a great idea, story for the casuals, hard mode for the progression raiders, and nightmare for the really hard core raiding guilds and should be for bragging rights only, and not be part of the progression. I've never done ec nightmare but from what I've heard, 8 man was disappointingly easy once you knew the strategy. I think that the nightmare mode should be at about the same difficulty as 16 man nightmare, which, from what I've heard, is a true challenge for even the best guilds, since I think only 2 guilds in the world have ever finished it. I do agree that 4-5 bosses simply isn't enough for after 3+ months of nothing.

On another note, they need to add more flashpoints, and harder ones. Lost island was fun and hard at first, but now it's become as boring as the rest. When was the last new flashpoint? Almost a year ago with LI and KUS? I'm sorry bioware, but that simply isn't good enough