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Swtor state of end game


Altarboom's Avatar


Altarboom
01.27.2013 , 03:16 AM | #1
Dear Devs,

I have been playing swtor since beta. I have always had one of the best guilds on my server. I run the raid group that has the only NiM timed run EC on the server. My guild had 3 8 mans when EC launched. We have lost 98% of our player base due to end game content not being released in a timely fashion. We recruited a lot of people to end up with one 8 man group when tfb launched.

EC nightmare has a loot table that only needs you to clear it 4x to get all of the loot. The expansion says nothing about a new operation and the announcements say it could be released as late as May. I look around at my guild and no one is in it that did HM EC.

If you want to keep your end game player base you NEED to release END GAME content faster. Being able to craft all end game gear so you never have to kill the bosses is a stupid move. When we killed NiM Kephass no one needed the loot. This gives little incentive to keep progression raiding going let alone do it after the first kill.

25% of my raid group is going FTP and going to raid off credits until new content is released. I think more of my raid team will quit before you release new content. If that happens I will quit too. I do not like having to recruit new people for each new raid. Some loss is reasonable but replacing a new raid group every content patch is not. This is a dead game if you can not release END GAME content faster, and if you can not create a loot system to sustain raiding after the first kill.

ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
01.28.2013 , 03:51 AM | #2
They're releasing it just as fast as WoW does and you don't see WoW losing 98% of it's raiders. 'Raiders' that jump ship so easily will jump ship to a different game every month and there's no way they could keep up with the content they demand.
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bbare's Avatar


bbare
01.28.2013 , 05:11 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by ckoneful View Post
They're releasing it just as fast as WoW does and you don't see WoW losing 98% of it's raiders. 'Raiders' that jump ship so easily will jump ship to a different game every month and there's no way they could keep up with the content they demand.
WoW isn't losing 98% of its raiders because WoW raids are much more challenging and you actually have to do them to get the best gear. In SWTOR, you do not have to complete a single tier 2 operation to get black hole gear, and it is fairly time efficient to get enough comms to gear yourself up in black hole. Dread Guard gear is the slightest upgrade over black hole, and theoretically if you have enough credits, you can buy all of the BiS gear. When you don't have to do any high-tier operations to get great gear, much less people commit to doing them. When less people want to raid, developers concentrate on other things in expense of the raid content.

Of course, raiding is supposed to be more for fun and not for gear, but since SWTOR is courting casual players more than "hardcore" players now (or even more so now, they always favored casual players), the casual players will dictate the future of the game, meaning the rather easy raid content, low class difficulty, and buffing of popular classes (marauder *cough *cough) will continue.
The Vanity Legacy

Zweijsters's Avatar


Zweijsters
01.28.2013 , 05:16 AM | #4
What I'd like to see is a tier with more than 4-5 bosses at a time.

Ryofo's Avatar


Ryofo
01.28.2013 , 06:36 AM | #5
I have to agree 100%. I'm a full 63 BiS sent yet I've never done more then the first boss in EC Nightmare, not that I couldn't but most of my guild never get to the level where they can because people keep leaving so we have to recruit new people and gear them up.

Screaming_Ziva's Avatar


Screaming_Ziva
01.28.2013 , 08:12 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Altarboom View Post
I run the raid group that has the only NiM timed run EC on the server.
Quote: Originally Posted by Altarboom View Post
If you want to keep your end game player base you NEED to release END GAME content faster.
I never understand these posts. How often do you want new raids? Once a month? Just because you're in what seems to be a hard core raid guild, doesn't mean everyone else is. Of our guild's 4 raid teams, only two have finished HM TFB and I believe they are both currently at Firebrand in NiM EC. Just because you have finished the content, doesn't mean everyone else has.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.28.2013 , 08:42 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Screaming_Ziva View Post
I never understand these posts. How often do you want new raids? Once a month? Just because you're in what seems to be a hard core raid guild, doesn't mean everyone else is. Of our guild's 4 raid teams, only two have finished HM TFB and I believe they are both currently at Firebrand in NiM EC. Just because you have finished the content, doesn't mean everyone else has.
Well you have a point, but he has a point too, even if he isn't really right when he's asking for new raids.

Actually, the PVE end game is boring :
-Dailies are always the same "kill <insert a number and a mob here>" for most of them.
-Raids are short and every raid is always following the same script.
-FP are even shorter.

Players need something to do, or they'll leave. In my guild, some players are only connected for the raids. I remember a Casino in Nar Shadaa, why not add some Blackjack, Poker, etc in the game ? Why not create some REALLY LONG dailies ? Random dailies ? Multi-planets dailies ? And I wasn't even talking about the raids.

I'd like to see a Raid/FP with multiple roads. It would be too much to ask for different bosses, but why not the same boss with different abilities ?
Or something already in the game : the Council in EV was a nice fight : why not a bos where the group is splitted ? Etc, etc, etc.

Ephesia's Avatar


Ephesia
01.28.2013 , 09:34 AM | #8
Yeah. Real long dailies, I'm sure that's how many people have as a chief idea of fun content

The problem is two fold and they contradict each other in a way that the situation is at an impasse, on one hand I definitely believe the latest gear set should not be craftable in any way, on the other hand we have the situation where every new content patch the new tier set will have some mods and enhancements that are just not optimal for the class they are intended for, so denying the crafting of the new set will make a lot of players unable to optimize their gear.
Ephesia, Level 55 Jedi Guardian
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DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.28.2013 , 09:42 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
-Dailies are always the same "kill <insert a number and a mob here>" for most of them.
They are? Let's take a look at the dailies available at Black Hole and Section X (Republic side):

Black Hole:
- Criminal crackdown: You need to kill some bad guys, destroy some boxes, then kill a boss.
- Counter eco-terrorism: Plug leaks in hazardous material tanks. Necessary protection stims are obtained from enemies; it's usually enough to kill one group.
- Eye and ears: Sneak into a warehouse and plant listening devices while avoiding detection. No killing involved unless you're clumsy.
- Stolen victory: Recover stolen weapons. The primary source of these is from enemies.
- Forced labor: Free enslaved engineers. No killing is necessary to complete the objective, though you may need to kill enemies that stand in your way.
- Chasing the shadow (heroic 4): Objectives alternate between infiltration and killing bosses. There are plenty of other enemies in the way.

Section X:
- Bio-reform: Destroy devices dispersing toxic substances. You may need to kill enemies around them, and there's a bonus objective for killing them.
- Key to decryption (area 2): Obtain data cores from droids, then kill a boss.
- Long shots (heroic 4): Destroy the big bad cannon. It's necessary to kill a whole bunch of bad guys and a boss at the end. There's a bonus mission for killing stuff.
- The Dread Guard: Collect data from terminals, last of which is protected by a boss. A multi-stage bonus mission requires first killing enemies to obtain datapads, and later killing a few elite enemies.
- Priority containment: Repair and reactivate some stuff in a prison. Final objective also requires killing a boss. There are enemies in the way, and a bonus objective for killing them.
- Imminent threat: Kill some enemies and destroy their weapons caches.

Summary:
- there are 12 missions in total, 9 solo and 3 for groups of varying sizes
- there are 3 bonus missions
- 2 missions and 3 bonus missions have direct objectives for killing a number of enemies
- 3 missions and 1 bonus mission require killing enemies in order to obtain items
- 5 missions and 1 bonus mission involve killing a boss to satisfy an objective
- 3 missions only require killing any enemies to get past them
- 1 mission has no enemies at all if done properly

I wouldn't say two out of twelve missions is "most of them". Even counting the missions that have bosses, it's still only half.

I chose this set of missions since I remember them better than the Belsavis and Ilum dailies. Also I think they are the most popular right now. If memory serves, the distribution is similar in the other places as well.

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
01.28.2013 , 09:54 AM | #10
PvE needs real End Game Updates and not these psuedo ones where they just come out with a different mode of the same operation you have been raiding forever. I'm sorry but a new mode of a 4 or 5 boss operation just doesn't cut it. Nightmare EC was way too easy at least in 8m (can't find many 16m guilds even attempting it because 16m guilds are dying out from lack of incentives). The only boss they really put a decent effort into was kephess.
Give PvErs actual new content. New operations with new bosses and more than 5 please! I consider the last new content we receive as TFB and that op is too easy. I wish they would just do 2 modes....SM so folks can experience everything and NMM for the hardcore. Stop wasting resources and time on creating 3 modes.