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Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

Canino's Avatar


Canino
01.26.2013 , 12:20 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
That is a point, but that doesn't make his talisman immune to it. And too drain all their lives he had to perform an intricate ritual. So we can't be sure if he can perform it of the bat.

And Rayla? No idea, maybe her subscription ran out?
To Rayla, I just looked up her page. She was/is on today. Maybe she doesn't like us anymore..... No, that's impossible (at least to not like me).
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.26.2013 , 07:51 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'm incline to agree with you here. While I think Sion and Traya (with telekinetic lightsabers, shatterpoint etc.) could overwhelm Kun and deal some blows. Kun can incapacitate (or even kill) Sion with a powerful Force blast. And then defeat Traya by conventional means.
Uh, how is a force blast going to kill someone whom apparently can't die?

As to your comments about Exar Kun sending a fleet to coruscant while he deals with Kreia, you said yourself that Kreia had access to Nihilus's ships (minus Nihilus), the bulk of his starships were in Ulic's hands, thus Ulic is most likely heading to Malachor V at Exar Kun's orders, not Coruscant.

Coruscant's planetary defenses in Xizor's time were capable of holding off fleets of starships... I don't think Ulic could do much with a significant portion of their forces sitting at Malachor V.

cjlcw's Avatar


cjlcw
01.26.2013 , 08:52 PM | #53
I believe Traya would win this.

While Exar Kun has the larger military; Traya and Xizor wouldn't fight him openly. They'd know that if they did so victory would be impossible. What I see happening is Traya and Xizor ignoring one another and focusing on Exar Kun. Xizor would likely conduct raids on Exar's supply lines and use hit and run attacks on small groups of ships. There would be no large scale confrontations. If Exar Kun's fleet was to large Xizor would flee. Since Xizor posses a strong spy network he would easily be able to track enemy flleet movements. For this reason an attack on Coruscant wouldn't work. He would know that Exar was coming and flee; likely leaving a trap behind. He would then proceed to keep Exar's military of balance. Althouh I don't see Xizor being able to inflict any major damage.

Traya will fight in a similar way; her power base foucsed on waging a shadow war. She would likely send out assassins to take out key military leaders in Exar Kun's power base. Her fleet would avoid confrontations until a planet was lightly defended or it found a small group of ships that was unable to be reinforced.

Exar Kun would be unable to have a direct confrontation with either of his opponents and would be forced to spend large amounts of time hunting them down. He would never fight on favorable terms.

Eventually Exar Kun would decide to go to Malachor V to eliminate Traya and remove one of his enemies. This is where I believe he would be defeated. Since he is fighitng a two front war and his military would be busy hunting down Traya and Xizor's fleets I don't see him being able to bring in a large force. His strike team would probably consist of his best students and a small army. I could see Ulic Qel-Droma being absent and leading the rest of Kun's army in the galaxy.

An attack on Malachor is highly problematic. The landing craft would crash causing some casualties and more would die from the storm beasts while approaching the academy. By the time Exar's army arrived, Traya would be expecting them. She would then be able to easily set up defensive positions and her Sith Marauders and trooper could easily inflict heavy damage on his troops. Her Stih assassins would also present a challenge. They specialized in killing force sensitives and where efficient at concealing their presence in the force. I doubt even Exar could sense them. The assassins would conduct hit and run attacks on the invading army and harrass them all the way to the academy's core. I think Exar would be the only one powerful enough to make it.

Now comes his fight with Traya; she would likely have Sion along wiht the three Sith from Dxun with her and maybe even a few more assassins concealed in the room. She would know that Exar was more powerful and would want every possible advantage. In the fight she would let Sion and the three other Sith fight Exar while she used her three floating lightsabers. Eventaully the assassins would come out and join the fight. I believe the Kun still would have a good chance at killing everyone, but Sion and Traya. Sion is unkillable so I don't think the force blast could kill him; so he'd have to keep killing Sion. If he survives and manages to kill Sion he would be worn down from the fight and his approach through the academy. This would make fighting Traya one-on-one impossible. I think Kun's power wouldn't matter at this point and Traya, especially since she can see shatterpoints, would be able to kill him.

After that, Traya would send out any survivng assasins to kill Xizor or manupulate him into falling into a trap.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.26.2013 , 09:44 PM | #54
Kun isn't a moron....lets see what his intelligence has done for him..

1. He manipulated several Jedi into turning against one another and have them join his side so Kun could do the same with Traya's men.

2. He strategic intellect coordinated key battles in the Great Sith War. This shows he won't just go in blind in anything, given he is a smart man.
===

Plus not only that, he has various powerful items from Naga Sadow on Yavin IV. His Force Blasts could probably kill Sion, it did kill a great dark side beast that was engineered by Sadow and also killed several Massassi Warriors which feed on the darkside.

If by some chance it doesn't work, Kun could manipulate Sion into joining him after showing what power he wields. Also I very much doubt Kun wouldn't be able to sense the assassins he could sense throughout the galaxy searching for others.

Also Kun could create dark side beasts himself, so they could help him greatly. He could also increase the power of his Massassi Warriors. In short, Kun won't have any problems with Traya or the Academy, Malachor works both ways so it will amp up Kun and his troops too making them far more powerful then before.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.26.2013 , 09:44 PM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Uh, how is a force blast going to kill someone whom apparently can't die?

As to your comments about Exar Kun sending a fleet to coruscant while he deals with Kreia, you said yourself that Kreia had access to Nihilus's ships (minus Nihilus), the bulk of his starships were in Ulic's hands, thus Ulic is most likely heading to Malachor V at Exar Kun's orders, not Coruscant.

Coruscant's planetary defenses in Xizor's time were capable of holding off fleets of starships... I don't think Ulic could do much with a significant portion of their forces sitting at Malachor V.
You know, Exar Kun could simply use his mastery of Sith magic to incapacitate Sion.

And Exar Kun would send Ulic to attack Coruscant. The Tetan Navy is closest to Coruscant so he can attack Coruscant with it.

Question for Beni: IIRC, the planetary defenses of Coruscant aren't apart of Xizor's powerbase, so why would they be there?
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.26.2013 , 10:33 PM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
You know, Exar Kun could simply use his mastery of Sith magic to incapacitate Sion.

And Exar Kun would send Ulic to attack Coruscant. The Tetan Navy is closest to Coruscant so he can attack Coruscant with it.

Question for Beni: IIRC, the planetary defenses of Coruscant aren't apart of Xizor's powerbase, so why would they be there?
The alternative is to assume that Xizor would stupidly leave his palace with no defensive capablities, if Coruscant didn't have them already, trust me Xizor would have those defenses in place years before Exar Kun went on his rampage.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.27.2013 , 05:55 AM | #57
Garfield, the reason I believe Kun will have Ulic bring the Tetan Fleet to Coruscant, while he himself leads the Mandalorian Fleet to Malachor V, is mainly because of locations. See this map. The Tetan Fleet is based in the Deep Core, right in the middle, and specifically at Empress Teta. Which you should be able to spot a little north from the centre. You'll also notice that there is a hyperlane leading directly out of the Deep Core to Coruscant. In fact its the only way out of there. So to get to Malachor V Ulic would literally have to pass over Xizor's base (albeit through hyperspace) It therefore seems counterintuitive to bypass it. Its the perfect oppurtunity to launch a suprise attack on Xizor, seeing as it would take him a matter of hours or less to get there - not enough time for Xizor to rally a sizeable force. The Tetan Fleet would decimate Xizor's defenses (although Xizor would likely escape to Mustafar)

On the other hand if Kun ordered Ulic to Malachor it would take weeks for him to arrive, with Malachor being all the way at the edge of the Outer Rim. Meanwhile Xizor could prepare a sizeable fleet and send it to Yavin 4 (his forces presumably being centered in the Outer Rim and Hutt space). And Traya could do the same - so before Ulic arrives Traya and Xizor would have attacked Yavin 4, lain waste to his fleet and orbitally bombarded the planet. Not a good idea.

And cjicw (nice name ) - you make some good points but there are a few flaws:

  • Xizor would not see Ulic coming, take a look at the map as well. Empress Teta is right next to Coruscant, Ulic could attack fast enough to catch Xizor off guard. Even his intelligence network wasn't that fast. But even so, Xizor could easily flee as soon as Ulic arrives, and hunker down on Mustafar. Still your scenario still stands.

  • Kun doesn't really have any 'key military leaders' - they went on crusades, with Mandalore and Ulic leading the Mandalorian and Tetan forces respectively. They only therefore fought on two fronts at any time. And seeing as Mandalore isn't in this Kun will have to lead those forces. Making it difficult for Traya's assassins to bump of anyone significant enough to deal real damage.

  • Kun would be aware of Malachor V (for this Kaggath at least, each combatant is aware of their opponents 'capital' if you like i.e. Coruscant, Yavin 4 & Malachor V) and it would be his only target, so he'll attack Malachor V first.

  • And then concerning your scenario on Malachor V - I think to stack the odds even more against Kun would be to flee Malachor and ambush him over Yavin 4, cut out the face-to-face confrontation altogether.

And finally Aurbere, not quite. While the planetary defense aren't strictly part of Xizor's powerbase, they are still present in the Kaggath. Coruscant's planetary defenses are as much a part of it as its skyscrapers are. I mean, look at Malachor V, the various 'fauna and flora' are not strictly part of Traya's powerbase - but are still present. So the same applies to Coruscant. However Xizor doesn't have the Golan platforms, just the shields and the turbolasers (only the automatic defenses), seeing as the Golan platforms are Imperial space stations.

However it doesn't make Coruscant impenetrable though. With a rag-tag force guarding the planet Ulic's fleet can rip through them easily and bypass the shields and turbolasers by sending a small landing party to infiltrate the palace (or just himself.) However it does give Xizor plenty of time to escape.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.27.2013 , 11:13 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
And finally Aurbere, not quite. While the planetary defense aren't strictly part of Xizor's powerbase, they are still present in the Kaggath. Coruscant's planetary defenses are as much a part of it as its skyscrapers are. I mean, look at Malachor V, the various 'fauna and flora' are not strictly part of Traya's powerbase - but are still present. So the same applies to Coruscant. However Xizor doesn't have the Golan platforms, just the shields and the turbolasers (only the automatic defenses), seeing as the Golan platforms are Imperial space stations.

However it doesn't make Coruscant impenetrable though. With a rag-tag force guarding the planet Ulic's fleet can rip through them easily and bypass the shields and turbolasers by sending a small landing party to infiltrate the palace (or just himself.) However it does give Xizor plenty of time to escape.
Alright well, Coruscant will be of little issue then. Ulic has dealt with Coruscant before, he can do it again. And if Xizor takes his starship off planet, it can either be blown up by the Tetan Navy or a Chaos Fighter. And if he does escape, Ulic will follow him to his other base (provided each combatant knows about the other's secret bases).

And for Kun. He doesn't have to wait for the Mandalorian fleet. He can just take his shuttle to Malachor and deal with the Academy himself (seriously, he is that good). But it would be best to wait, which would allow Traya to attack Yavin. Or he could take his shuttle and rendezvous with the Mandalorians for an attack on Malachor. Obviously, the Mandalorians wouldn't be able to operate on the planet, so Kun will have to bring his students with him.

This strategy allows Kun to avoid bombardment and still attack Malachor, which would severely damage Traya's powerbase.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.27.2013 , 11:45 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Alright well, Coruscant will be of little issue then. Ulic has dealt with Coruscant before, he can do it again. And if Xizor takes his starship off planet, it can either be blown up by the Tetan Navy or a Chaos Fighter. And if he does escape, Ulic will follow him to his other base (provided each combatant knows about the other's secret bases).

And for Kun. He doesn't have to wait for the Mandalorian fleet. He can just take his shuttle to Malachor and deal with the Academy himself (seriously, he is that good). But it would be best to wait, which would allow Traya to attack Yavin. Or he could take his shuttle and rendezvous with the Mandalorians for an attack on Malachor. Obviously, the Mandalorians wouldn't be able to operate on the planet, so Kun will have to bring his students with him.

This strategy allows Kun to avoid bombardment and still attack Malachor, which would severely damage Traya's powerbase.
Concerning Xizor, I think he could escape Coruscant without being killed. Just think, no fleet can surround an entire planet in a short amount of time, and certainly not effectively. And (using my very rudimentary knowledge of hyperspace travel) Ulic will drop out of hyperspace on the 'wrong' side i.e. from the direction of the Deep Core rather than the rest of the galaxy. So while Ulic gets to the other side, Xizor and Guri can escape on their personal vessels. Both the Virago and the Stinger where fast, shielded, and powerful.

And Ulic won't have knowledge of his base on Mustafar, but could find out by say, Force persuading a lackey or searching Xizor's database. That would however give Xizor time to amass a sizable armada.

Concerning Kun, Traya won't leave Malachor and attack Yavin 4 unless Kun comes to Malachor V first. She can't afford to make the first move so must wait until he does. Else she can't set up an ambush. Concerning how Kun will get there, well taking a personal shuttle isn't such a good idea. Kun may be good but how good a pilot is he? Can he evade an entire fleet that may or may not be waiting for him? Will he take that risk?

I have been thinking, and I think the best plan of attack concerning Malachor V would be to take the Mandalorian Fleet to Malachor, and then have he and his Brotherhood (roughly 20 Sith adepts) invade the planet via Basilisk War Droids. They are highly maneuverable, heavily armoured and could operate in the vacuum of space. Perfect for landing on Malachor's surface. And I'm sure the Brotherhood and Kun could use the Force to protect them from the vacuum of space as well. Nonetheless, Traya won't be there.

Where will Traya be? Well as soon as she senses Kun approaching Malachor V she leave with Sion, some assassins and the entirety of her fleet, go mobile. Then destroy any vessels surrounding Yavin 4 and lie in ambush nearby. When Kun returns from his failed voyage she springs the trap and decimates his forces, and perhaps him with it. If he escapes to his temple, orbital bombardment. Well that is at least how I see Traya winning - not sure about Kun but I'm sure you can come up with something.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.27.2013 , 12:12 PM | #60
I dunno if Xizor would leave any trace behind, so that his enemy could find his whereabouts. He actually has done that before, he left no trace of Vader ever being involved with his family's death so he could do the same here, where if Xizor would escape he would leave no trace of where he would be going or anything of that nature.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.