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Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
01.25.2013 , 07:32 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
The amulet would have its limits though, the idea that it could take down other Dark Lords of the Sith is rather questionable...



If it wouldn't work on the Assassins, it stands to reason it would not work on Traya and Sion.
He won't use it against them, sure. It won't kill Traya and Sion will keep himself alive. But Beni brought up these three fellows. The amulet might not kill them, but it will knock them out while he deals with Traya and Sion.



Quote:
If I remember correctly Exar Kun murdered Odan-Urr, he didn't force persuade him into dieing, he did persuade younger Jedi of this idea after Odan-Urr was dead...
The dialogue in the comic goes like this:

Odan-Urr: Strange... the Sith Holocron is glowing brighter...
Exar Kun: (behind him) It is not strange, old one. It is called by its rightful owner. (takes the holocron with the force from OU's hand.)
OU: Dark Jedi, you do not belong in this place. Away! (Force-pushes him into the wall, trying Wall of Light.)
EK: Master, do you really know who I am? I am the Dark Lord of the Sith. (amulet glows)
OU: I... am old... evil is loose... in the galaxy... and I cannot stop it...
EK: Yes... You are old... old and dead. YOu should have just given me the Sith holocron.
OU: (dies and disappers)
EK: I wonder if he would have liked it better if I had sealed him in a Sith Crystal. (kicks Odan-Urr's robes away.)
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.26.2013 , 07:27 AM | #42
Remember Garfield, that Mandalore isn't in the fight, Ulic is however. Just making that clear.
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
Analysis:
Exar Kun: Well in a typical Sith Lord fashion, Exar Kun would likely consider Xizor to be a laughable threat, Kun's flaw is his overconfidence, so he may go gunning for Traya first, thinking he can eliminate Xizor at his leisure. Unlike Revan, he lacks the patience to wait out his opponent and let his opponent make the mistake of launching a stupid attack, so it stands to reason that Exar Kun would try to invade Traya's Academy.

Traya: She would consider Xixor to be a key player in this, however if you look at her behavior patterns, she's more likely to go gunning for Exar Kun first (considering her hatred of the Force), and Kun isn't giving her proper respect as a Dark Lord of the Sith... While her patience isn't infinite, she has more patience than Exar Kun and thus she'd lure Exar Kun to where she has the home court advantage, Ravenger and the other hulks at her disposal wouldn't likely be enough to take down Exar Kun's forces.

Xizor: He's going to make sure he has good defenses, and isn't likely to act before he is ready. While he's shown overconfidence in the past, he isn't as likely to make that mistake like he did concerning Luke Skywalker, with the forces that both Traya and Kun command, it's plainly obvious that he needs to take them very seriously. He also isn't going to whimsically dispatch Guri to eliminate people, it's a waste of time and likely going to send Guri to the scrap heap.
This is very interesting, I'm just like to point out a few things however:

Your right, Kun's arrogance would mean he would underestimate Xizor completely. However the majority if not the entirety (still not sure about the numbers of Mandalore's fleets - can anyone clarify?) of Kun's fleet is based in the Deep Core, specifically on Empress Teta. And there is a nice little hyperlane leading straight from Teta to Coruscant. So Kun would likely have Ulic strike at Xizor, for convenience. While he personally tackles Traya. A two pronged assault is likely if not definite.

Traya however, never let her emotions (even her hatred of the Force) get the better of her. Yeah that was the point of her whole plan, but she only did it for the good of the galaxy, not necessarily herself. So she isn't going to be 'drawn' to Kun because he has strong connections to the Force. But Kun is based on Yavin 4, very close to Malachor, so she's going to have to face him first. However I think she will probably believe Kun will deal with Xizor for her, and yes, would be confident if need be, she could destroy him herself. But Kun is the main threat her, purely because he is very powerful.

And with Xizor, your exactly right there.

Quote:
Scenario:

What I see is Exar Kun blockading Malachor V and losing patience and in his overconfidence, he launches an all out invasion of the planet. As his troops get eliminated by various examples of the local wildlife, they then end up having to take on a bunch of sith assassins, troopers, Dark Jedi, other force wielding sith, etc. This would likely whittle down the numbers on both sides.

I see Sion easily dispatching Ulic and Mandalore... I'm just not sure if Exar Kun will have the presense of mind to try to talk Sion into giving up. Remember, the Exile didn't Force Persuade Sion to give up, the Exile persuaded Sion purely with words. I really don't know who'd win this fight, while Exar Kun is the better duelist, the fact Sion just won't die, means that he likely would be able to outlast Kun. So it's hard to say.

If Kun wins then he has to take on Traya, Kun is the better saber wielder, but I think Traya might be the better force wielder. Also she has some stealth abilities that I'm not sure Exar Kun has or at least not as developed as Traya's were.

I kinda think Traya will defeat Kun in this purely due to Kun's impatience causes him to confront Traya on her own turf.

Now depending on whether or not Xizor's intelligence has figured out where this huge confrontation has taken place, he'd probably have forces show up while Exar Kun's forces are on Malachor V, and wait for the victor to emerge.

Now if he manages to successfully keep the victor's forces from leaving the planet and then mine the surrounding space, he may actually prove the victor.

If he fails at this, it turns into a possible confrontation on Xizor's home ground, but at that point I believe Xixor could win (barring thermal detonators aren't in the mix). Xizor would probably opt for Sion to be vaporized since not even immortal sith could come back from being reduced to particulate matter (or send Sion's rebuilding body into the heart of the Coruscant Sun).

Xizor would probably win this if the Sith decide to go kill each other first, if Exar Kun decides to go hunting for Xizor first though, Xizor is in serious trouble.

I consider the most likely winners to be either Traya or Xizor, it all boils down to which individual Exar Kun decides to attack first.

Additional Note:
While Exar Kun had a Sith Amulet, I'm not sure it would be effective on Sith Assassins that get more powerful, the stronger their adversary is, especially on Traya's home turf. I also don't think he could force persuade Sion into committing suicide out of hand...
So we can apply what I said above, to your scenario.

Firstly I agree, Kun will go to Malachor and 'blockade' it with whatever forces he has. But these will be minimal so I think Aurbere's ground invasion by Massassi would be Kun's first move, and it seems a reasonable one. They would however take heavy losses.

Yet I don't think Traya or Sion will be present. I simply do not think Traya alone possesses the strength to defeat Kun on Malachor V. He is very powerful. Even with Sion at her side (he would probably bring his Brotherhood with him), its possible, but not assured. Traya wants an assured victory, she is going to make sure all the odds are in her favour. And an academy surrounded by Massassi warriors, and with Kun and his Brotherhood storming the battlements, is not good odds. Traya will see her imminent defeat through the Force, and flee to Yavin 4 and set a trap when Kun returns.

Oh and Ulic won't be present, he's all the way in the Deep Core, and it would take him at least a week to get to the Outer Rim.

However we also need to consider Kun's Brotherhood, he's got around 20 powerful Sith adepts, who will probably come with him to Malachor V. If Traya flees Malachor or not, she needs to deal with them first so she can isolate and kill Kun. But then again if Traya ambushes Kun's Mandalorian fleet above Yavin 4, with everything. Its highly possible that Kun and the Brotherhood would perish above Yavin 4, before they have a chance to escape below. Especially if Traya has Sion and assassins board whatever ship Kun is on (I'm sure from Yavin 4 she could sense his powerful dark side presence) and prevent his escape.

And concerning this amulet. The way I understand it is that is amplify's and channels Kun's power in Sith magic. A conduit if you will. Its not like a blaster, but Kun can use to to attack people through Sith magic, and it perhaps helps he use Sith magic in combat without the need for long rituals.

One question: How does everyone feel Traya & Sion would fare against just Kun?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.26.2013 , 09:36 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
One question: How does everyone feel Traya & Sion would fare against just Kun?
2v1? I think they would do quite well.

If Traya pulls triple lightsaber control and Sion keeps Kun under heavy fire, they could defeat him.

Kun would have to defend with his single blade against an opponent who can't die, Sion's powerful strokes, and Traya's three lightsabers (which are quick and aided by Traya's mind... Traya's mind controling three lightsabers = scary)

And this isn't a video game. One slash from Sion and/or Traya's blades would end it for Kun. Where as one slash to Sion would not kill him.

I would have to give this to Traya and Sion.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
01.26.2013 , 09:38 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Remember Garfield, that Mandalore isn't in the fight, Ulic is however. Just making that clear.
This is very interesting, I'm just like to point out a few things however:

Your right, Kun's arrogance would mean he would underestimate Xizor completely. However the majority if not the entirety (still not sure about the numbers of Mandalore's fleets - can anyone clarify?) of Kun's fleet is based in the Deep Core, specifically on Empress Teta. And there is a nice little hyperlane leading straight from Teta to Coruscant. So Kun would likely have Ulic strike at Xizor, for convenience. While he personally tackles Traya. A two pronged assault is likely if not definite.

Traya however, never let her emotions (even her hatred of the Force) get the better of her. Yeah that was the point of her whole plan, but she only did it for the good of the galaxy, not necessarily herself. So she isn't going to be 'drawn' to Kun because he has strong connections to the Force. But Kun is based on Yavin 4, very close to Malachor, so she's going to have to face him first. However I think she will probably believe Kun will deal with Xizor for her, and yes, would be confident if need be, she could destroy him herself. But Kun is the main threat her, purely because he is very powerful.

And with Xizor, your exactly right there.

So we can apply what I said above, to your scenario.

Firstly I agree, Kun will go to Malachor and 'blockade' it with whatever forces he has. But these will be minimal so I think Aurbere's ground invasion by Massassi would be Kun's first move, and it seems a reasonable one. They would however take heavy losses.

Yet I don't think Traya or Sion will be present. I simply do not think Traya alone possesses the strength to defeat Kun on Malachor V. He is very powerful. Even with Sion at her side (he would probably bring his Brotherhood with him), its possible, but not assured. Traya wants an assured victory, she is going to make sure all the odds are in her favour. And an academy surrounded by Massassi warriors, and with Kun and his Brotherhood storming the battlements, is not good odds. Traya will see her imminent defeat through the Force, and flee to Yavin 4 and set a trap when Kun returns.

Oh and Ulic won't be present, he's all the way in the Deep Core, and it would take him at least a week to get to the Outer Rim.

However we also need to consider Kun's Brotherhood, he's got around 20 powerful Sith adepts, who will probably come with him to Malachor V. If Traya flees Malachor or not, she needs to deal with them first so she can isolate and kill Kun. But then again if Traya ambushes Kun's Mandalorian fleet above Yavin 4, with everything. Its highly possible that Kun and the Brotherhood would perish above Yavin 4, before they have a chance to escape below. Especially if Traya has Sion and assassins board whatever ship Kun is on (I'm sure from Yavin 4 she could sense his powerful dark side presence) and prevent his escape.

And concerning this amulet. The way I understand it is that is amplify's and channels Kun's power in Sith magic. A conduit if you will. Its not like a blaster, but Kun can use to to attack people through Sith magic, and it perhaps helps he use Sith magic in combat without the need for long rituals.

One question: How does everyone feel Traya & Sion would fare against just Kun?
Well, Exar Kun (if you ask me I dont speak for anyone else) is probably one of the Top 5 most powerful sith lords of all time, the Jedi Order of that time had to seal him away on Yavin since he was too powerful to defeat. His power was timeless since he was able to challenge Luke and the NJO and they still needed help from Master Baas' spirit to beat him. I think he could beat both of them al once, it would be a challenge but he could win convincingly.

Could he kill Sion? I dont think he could even Force Persuade him to die since Sion's sheer hatred is fueled by the dark side and being in the dark holocron's presence would only fuel his hatred which would keep him alive. Would Kun be able to break Sion into joining him? Yes, much more easily since Traya was able to do it twice.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.26.2013 , 09:56 AM | #45
Against them both? Well...Kun could do this..

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__35_.jpg

Force Blast, took out a huge dark side beast that was engineered by Naga Sadow and killed several Massasi Warriors.

Or

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...cture__68_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...icture__7_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4...icture__8_.jpg

Just out duel them, he can swing his saber so fast that it creates after images. His swings so powerful it actually can break through Mandalorian iron.

While training under Bass, he beat both Crado and Sylvar together and then beat his own master using two blades. I don't see Sion being able to do crap against Kun other then be an annoyance, he can just blow him away with a Force Blast leaving him out of the fight, and thus Traya is the one to face Kun alone.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.26.2013 , 10:05 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkondo View Post
Well, Exar Kun (if you ask me I dont speak for anyone else) is probably one of the Top 5 most powerful sith lords of all time, the Jedi Order of that time had to seal him away on Yavin since he was too powerful to defeat. His power was timeless since he was able to challenge Luke and the NJO and they still needed help from Master Baas' spirit to beat him. I think he could beat both of them al once, it would be a challenge but he could win convincingly.

Could he kill Sion? I dont think he could even Force Persuade him to die since Sion's sheer hatred is fueled by the dark side and being in the dark holocron's presence would only fuel his hatred which would keep him alive. Would Kun be able to break Sion into joining him? Yes, much more easily since Traya was able to do it twice.
I would agree, Kun is definitely IMO one of the most powerful Sith Lords out there. However we have to remember that the Jedi didn't imprison him with the Wall of Light because he was too powerful to defeat, not exactly. But because using a Sith ritual he had transcended physical form, the Jedi could therefore not fight him with a lightsaber or the Force because he was a spirit. The Wall of Light was erected to prevent him from escaping. So it wasn't so much he was too powerful, but because as a spirit they could not physically fight him, only imprison him.

That applies to is 'reawakening' too. Fighting a spirit is a whole different story to fighting a man, Luke could probably have defeated Kun if he was in physical form. But as a spirit he could not be killed by conventional means.

And in the heat of battle, with Traya at his side - I doubt Sion will join Kun. He'd have to be defeated first, and then Kun as to deal with Traya - not really much time to persuade him to abandon Traya. Unless Kun somehow isolates Traya from Kun, then it would be possible. But let us also remember that Kun won't know Sion is 'immortal' which could give Sion an edge.

However we also have to remember that Kun wielded a double-bladed lightsaber as a Sith. He was extremely proficient with it, and shortened and extended the blade in battle to confuse his enemies - combined with his rage filled attacks and exotic weapon, he was very unpredictable. And would also help him fight multiple opponents. However it did have significant drawbacks mainly in the sense that it often left them open to attack. Something Traya with multiple blades could exploit...

Wolf also makes some good points. We should however consider the powers of Force drain. Surely Traya could use Force drain on the amulet? Rendering it useless?

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.26.2013 , 10:25 AM | #47
Kun does know drain too, he used it on a huge scale absorbing all the power from thousands of Massassi Warriors. So its not like, he wouldn't be able to just counter it to just re-absorb what was lost.

Btw a completely off topic question, but does anyone know where Rayla is?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.26.2013 , 10:52 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Kun does know drain too, he used it on a huge scale absorbing all the power from thousands of Massassi Warriors. So its not like, he wouldn't be able to just counter it to just re-absorb what was lost.

Btw a completely off topic question, but does anyone know where Rayla is?
That is a point, but that doesn't make his talisman immune to it. And too drain all their lives he had to perform an intricate ritual. So we can't be sure if he can perform it of the bat.

And Rayla? No idea, maybe her subscription ran out?

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.26.2013 , 10:55 AM | #49
Sion poses no threat to Kun. He is simply the superior duelist. Or he can just destroy him with an epic Force Blast. And Traya doesn't pose that great of a threat either. Let's face it, a direct confrontation is simply not an option.

And Wolf, I have no idea where Rayla is. Haven't seen her through the whole tournament.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.26.2013 , 11:05 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Sion poses no threat to Kun. He is simply the superior duelist. Or he can just destroy him with an epic Force Blast. And Traya doesn't pose that great of a threat either. Let's face it, a direct confrontation is simply not an option.

And Wolf, I have no idea where Rayla is. Haven't seen her through the whole tournament.
I'm incline to agree with you here. While I think Sion and Traya (with telekinetic lightsabers, shatterpoint etc.) could overwhelm Kun and deal some blows. Kun can incapacitate (or even kill) Sion with a powerful Force blast. And then defeat Traya by conventional means.