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Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Xizor vs Traya vs Exar Kun

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.30.2013 , 12:58 PM | #151
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
That wasn't really what I was saying. I meant that this Kaggath isn't about Black Sun, its about Xizor. Xizor just happens to have Black Sun as a part of his powerbase. I fully accept that Xizor's Black Sun was the best of the best. But this isn't Black Sun at the height of its power. (Which basically means they had everything the ever ever had, which would include the fortress) If you get what I mean.

And thanks, I too thought it was a good find. No more guesstimating for us!
Wait now I am a little lost...so....Xizor doesn't have everything the Black Sun has while the other two combatants do? Or are you just getting rid of the fortress for Xizor? If so then ya I understand, cause that place got torn to hell with Maul. I guess its confusing me, cause your saying he doesn't have the full power of the Black Sun when the rules state that the combatants have all their power.

Edit: However I do see a flaw in the chart..I take it that is just with a standard 2.0 hyperdrive in how long it takes?
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

FoolsErrand's Avatar


FoolsErrand
01.30.2013 , 01:08 PM | #152
No, what he's saying is he doens't have everything that other Black Sun leaders had. Things get destroyed or nobody tells them about it. The reason latter black sun leaders weren't as strong as Xizor is because Xizor was fairly good at keeping secrets which died either with him or with his castle so latter Black Sun didn't have access to Black Sun resources that Xizor did. It's likely that the death Alexi Garyn resulted in numerous things, including the FORTRESS ON RALLTIIR, that were lost. It doesn't mean that Xizor's powerbase is weaker, just that there are things he couldn't have had access to either because they were destroyed before he got there or the previous leader didn't feel the need to tell Xizor about them before they were killed. (Those darn crime lords are so greedy with their secrets )
Never give up! Never surrender!

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.30.2013 , 01:09 PM | #153
Edit: Just nvrm...I don't wanna confuse myself further.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.30.2013 , 01:11 PM | #154
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
Wait now I am a little lost...so....Xizor doesn't have everything the Black Sun has while the other two combatants do? Or are you just getting rid of the fortress for Xizor? If so then ya I understand, cause that place got torn to hell with Maul. I guess its confusing me, cause your saying he doesn't have the full power of the Black Sun when the rules state that the combatants have all their power.

Edit: However I do see a flaw in the chart..I take it that is just with a standard 2.0 hyperdrive in how long it takes?
What I mean is Xizor doesn't have ascess to any Black Sun resources than only existed before and after he came into power. Only the Black Sun resources available when he was in power. So that removes the Black Sun Fortress as that was an asset of Alexi Garyn, not Xizor.

And concerning the table, it shows the time it takes with a 1.0 hyperdrive, so it work out others you have to times the number by the hyperdrive rating. So double them for 2.0 and half them for 0.5 etc.

I believe its actually from a legitimate Star Wars source although I don't know which...

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.30.2013 , 04:45 PM | #155
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

Speaking of which I have to make an IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT: THE BLACK SUN FORTRESS ON RALLTIIR IS BANNED AS IS THE TOMB OF FREEDON NADD ON DXUN.
*Sigh*

Well, you wanted somewhere Xizor could go. He has countless other bases, including numberous space station on asteriods.But we don't have details because the Black Sun is TOO DANG GOOD at staying in the shadows. However, if you need another place he could go, it would be Fallen.

But seeing as that isn't a fortress but yet another planet (much less defended) I don't see why Xizor wouldn't just go mobile. His fleet of fast ships and pirate vessels would undoubtablly outrun the "millions" that Ulic's Krath Army has. Not to mention Xizor could use his intelligence network to predict Ulic/Kun's movements and conceal his own.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.30.2013 , 07:46 PM | #156
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
But seeing as that isn't a fortress but yet another planet (much less defended) I don't see why Xizor wouldn't just go mobile. His fleet of fast ships and pirate vessels would undoubtablly outrun the "millions" that Ulic's Krath Army has. Not to mention Xizor could use his intelligence network to predict Ulic/Kun's movements and conceal his own.
Expanding on this.

Kun might not even be able to touch Xizor after he's off Coruscant. The Fallen prince's information network will keep him up-to-date on Kun's fleet's movements, allowing him to be one step ahead and avoid ambushes, blockades, etc.

Also, the Falcon had a hyperdrive mark 6, if I remember correctly. Even if, say, Xizor's fleet (made out of pirate ships that need to be and are meant to be fast) had an average of a hyperdrive 3 or 4, it could easily out-run the larger fleets of Traya or Kun.

It's going to be very hard to force Xizor into a fleet battle after he's out and about. Most likly the event will come on Xizor's terms: he'll use the element of surprise and the full force of the Black Sun.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.30.2013 , 07:51 PM | #157
Xizor will have the home-field advantage where-ever he goes.

No one wants to be ruled by a rampaging Sith. Traya is too subtle to ask for help from locals, and Kun is ruthless and has tons of scary-looking followers. He'd probably rather eat the people of the galaxy, instead of get help from them.

Xizor, on the other hand, is charming, has pheromones, isn't pure evil, and has the power of a galaxy-wide organization with lots of wealth. I also bet he's a great propaganda machine (or Guri is). If there was ever to be a ground battle with Xizor and Kun/Traya, Xizor would have the help of the local population.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?

FoolsErrand's Avatar


FoolsErrand
01.30.2013 , 09:59 PM | #158
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Xizor will have the home-field advantage where-ever he goes.

No one wants to be ruled by a rampaging Sith. Traya is too subtle to ask for help from locals, and Kun is ruthless and has tons of scary-looking followers. He'd probably rather eat the people of the galaxy, instead of get help from them.

Xizor, on the other hand, is charming, has pheromones, isn't pure evil, and has the power of a galaxy-wide organization with lots of wealth. I also bet he's a great propaganda machine (or Guri is). If there was ever to be a ground battle with Xizor and Kun/Traya, Xizor would have the help of the local population.
Remember the rules:

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
[LIST][*]The arena: the known galaxy.[*]No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers apart from those listed below e.g. Mandalore the Indomitable, Darth Nihilus.[*]No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent. [*]No surrender, fight to the death![*]No alliances, combatants cannot ally themselves for any period of time with other powers (excluding non-mutual tactical ceasefires etc.)[*]Combatants can wait their opponents out, but not if only one remains.[*]Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
]
No outside help of any kind so Xizor's pheromones and charm are useless here, nobody can bring in the locals for help. Xizor's just got Black Sun resources. Kun's got his support, Traya has her support.
Never give up! Never surrender!

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
01.30.2013 , 11:00 PM | #159
I seriously think that people are really overestimating Exar Kun as a combatant...

He used a mass genocide to boost his powers, he was feeding off the deaths of his servants.

People are acting like he is some sort of demigod, he's not. He may be powerful, but he also has his limitations as well, remember the plant Jedi Master actually caused Exar Kun to back down.

Traya and Sion aren't exactly pushovers in all of this.

If Exar Kun has Ulic attacking Coruscant while he attacks Malachor V, then quite frankly Kreia would be an idiot to flee Malachor V, and she was no idiot.

The best opportunity to take Exar Kun down would be where Kreia has the home court advantage. His forces would be severely widdled down in a ground invasion, and Kreia has drained people of their life forces without any need for long drawn out rituals.

In order to get at Traya, Exar Kun has to go through Sion, and quite frankly the odds of him getting past Sion unscathed are rather low. Additionally if Traya steps in to assist her apprentice, then I seriously don't see Exar Kun defeating them both at the same time, especially without Ulic there.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
01.31.2013 , 06:30 AM | #160
Quote: Originally Posted by FoolsErrand View Post
Remember the rules:

No outside help of any kind so Xizor's pheromones and charm are useless here, nobody can bring in the locals for help. Xizor's just got Black Sun resources. Kun's got his support, Traya has her support.
"People of the galaxy" arguments have been vaild before. See rule 1.) Arena: The Known Galaxy. Last time I checked, the known galaxy had trillions of people in it.

The no outside involvement rule is refering to major powers, Ex. The Galactic Empire. Any major organizations tht would rival or ally with those in the Kaggath no longer exist, however that is not to say that the rest of the beings in the galaxy have disappeared too.
~~ AiR ~~
What are you more afraid of?
A weapon that could destroy you?
Or a weapon that could turn you into a monster?