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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

spookysage's Avatar


spookysage
04.11.2013 , 04:49 PM | #881
Is it so inexplicable that a writer would involuntarily create an SGR? It's been established by previous games that this is something Bioware does and does pretty well, usually.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.11.2013 , 04:54 PM | #882
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Since before launch, actually. I was in the beta and I reported lack of SGRAs as a bug because it seemed so natural and expected that, as a Bioware game, they'd be there. And I know for a fact that I wasn't alone in that because a fair number of other people have posted that they did the same.
Now see, I actually agree it should have been in from the start. Not that I've played the other BW games to have the "But...its a BW game!" mentality, but it seems like something you would at least go "Eh, put it in" especially with todays playbase. You know it's going to be asked for. You know remarks are going to be made as "OMG YOU HATE US!"

Sounds like it would have saved trouble/issues from the start.

I'm willing to accept their answer as truthful to why it wasn't however. With their recent message to the players, I take it the money aspect wasn't so much the voice acting or cutscenes, but just adding in more options and then having to cover those options.

So question, did they respond with anything different in beta? Where there a couple of SGRs in beta, that where then removed (like killing companions was) possibly because they thought they'd get hell for only a couple of classes getting the option of SGR instead of all of them?
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.11.2013 , 04:54 PM | #883
Quote: Originally Posted by spookysage View Post
Is it so inexplicable that a writer would involuntarily create an SGR? It's been established by previous games that this is something Bioware does and does pretty well, usually.
o.O Not what was said at all.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

spookysage's Avatar


spookysage
04.11.2013 , 04:58 PM | #884
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
o.O Not what was said at all.
I was replying to a couple different posts at the same time.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
04.11.2013 , 04:59 PM | #885
Quote: Originally Posted by stormdrakelord View Post
true, but SGRs is a "Cause" and people are begging for it "For the cause".
I have to admit that personally I don't care why people want it in because that's their own business and I don't have the right to dictate whether their reasons are 'worthy' or not. I don't care if it's a cause to some people, a story-motivated thing to others, a fetish thing to some, an expression of romantic interest to others. Everyone is going to have different reasons for wanting this feature. I don't think anyone here has the moral high ground to say that one reason for inclusion is somehow more objectively valid than another.

I want the feature in. I want it in place. I have specific personal reasons for doing so but they're not dramatically relevant to the bigger picture. I want it done well, of course, but if one person wants it in because she gets her jollies watching to boys kiss, another wants it in because they can't relate to a romance if it doesn't align to a certain sexuality and yet another wants it in because they feel it's desperately wrong not to have their sexuality represented, well, that shouldn't matter. It's pointless to fixate on why individuals want the feature because there will always be people who want SGRAs for different reasons. In any case it's not particularly relevant to the larger and more important matter of getting it implemented.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
04.11.2013 , 05:06 PM | #886
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Now see, I actually agree it should have been in from the start. Not that I've played the other BW games to have the "But...its a BW game!" mentality, but it seems like something you would at least go "Eh, put it in" especially with todays playbase. You know it's going to be asked for. You know remarks are going to be made as "OMG YOU HATE US!"

Sounds like it would have saved trouble/issues from the start.
Likewise. It should have been and it would have saved all sorts of trouble. This thread, for a start. I can imagine its existence is a headache for the developers.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I'm willing to accept their answer as truthful to why it wasn't however. With their recent message to the players, I take it the money aspect wasn't so much the voice acting or cutscenes, but just adding in more options and then having to cover those options.
'Time and resources,' I think was their reason. I don't have any reason to believe that wasn't true. I know a lot of people think they're lying but I haven't seen any convincing evidence or argument to make me think they were telling porky pies.

I don't, however, believe that it's at all a priority to them nowadays.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
So question, did they respond with anything different in beta? Where there a couple of SGRs in beta, that where then removed (like killing companions was) possibly because they thought they'd get hell for only a couple of classes getting the option of SGR instead of all of them?
When I put in my bug report I got a reply that said SGRAs weren't going to be in (or 'weren't yet a feature', I can't remember which exactly). I don't recall exactly but I don't believe it gave a reason why.

However there were some (heterosexual) NPC flirts that were in Beta that never made it past launch. I don't know whether they thought they'd put in too many; they seemed pretty innocuous to me at the time. I didn't see the whole game during Beta so I couldn't say for sure if there were SGR flirts but I suspect not. And from the look of the forums at the time there definitely weren't any SGRA companion romances in Beta despite there being what looked to me like strong support for them.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.11.2013 , 05:11 PM | #887
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
I have to admit that personally I don't care why people want it in because that's their own business and I don't have the right to dictate whether their reasons are 'worthy' or not. I don't care if it's a cause to some people, a story-motivated thing to others, a fetish thing to some, an expression of romantic interest to others. Everyone is going to have different reasons for wanting this feature. I don't think anyone here has the moral high ground to say that one reason for inclusion is somehow more objectively valid than another.

I want the feature in. I want it in place. I have specific personal reasons for doing so but they're not dramatically relevant to the bigger picture. I want it done well, of course, but if one person wants it in because she gets her jollies watching to boys kiss, another wants it in because they can't relate to a romance if it doesn't align to a certain sexuality and yet another wants it in because they feel it's desperately wrong not to have their sexuality represented, well, that shouldn't matter. It's pointless to fixate on why individuals want the feature because there will always be people who want SGRAs for different reasons. In any case it's not particularly relevant to the larger and more important matter of getting it implemented.
So why care when we've had posters not want it in for their own personal reasons? Which is why I think it's best to leave it "Want it in and here's some suggestions!" and "Don't want it in" When you put in certain reasons as mentioned, you're telling me you haven't noticed them getting upset when people on the opposite side of the line use the same reasoning for their position? Because I have.

Now obviously it's to late for the "Don't want it in" and just as expected, putting it in hasn't hurt the game in anyway. Makes me wonder if those who said they'd unsub did so or not, and now that it's in, if those who said they'd come back once it was in (it's in now) have come back!
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.11.2013 , 05:15 PM | #888
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
However there were some (heterosexual) NPC flirts that were in Beta that never made it past launch. I don't know whether they thought they'd put in too many; they seemed pretty innocuous to me at the time. I didn't see the whole game during Beta so I couldn't say for sure if there were SGR flirts but I suspect not. And from the look of the forums at the time there definitely weren't any SGRA companion romances in Beta despite there being what looked to me like strong support for them.
Hmmm...thinking about it, putting in a [Flirt] option for everyone seems like it may have saved some trouble in the choices department too.

1) Serious mode
2) Sarcastic/Snarky mode
3) Flirt mode

At least for the starting of the conversation.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
04.11.2013 , 05:18 PM | #889
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
So why care when we've had posters not want it in for their own personal reasons?
The difference is the matter of inclusion. Adding in SGRAs adds in more options to the game and that's a positive thing. Demanding it not be put in (or demanding it be removed) lowers the amount of options in the game and that's a bad thing.

Similarly to not being overly relevant to the bigger picture why someone wants the feature included I feel it's not overly relevant to the bigger picture why someone wants it not included. I'll argue specifics at times but in the end 'I don't want this in' means 'I don't think you should have this option' and to me that's not on.

So no, I don't overly care if someone argues about protecting children from sexuality matters or if they argue immersion or population percentages or political agendas. I might find their personal opinions repugnant on a personal level but in a bigger picture view it doesn't matter to me at all. That they're arguing against the feature being implemented and thus demanding people have fewer in-game options for enjoying everything SWTOR has to offer - THAT I care about.
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stormdrakelord's Avatar


stormdrakelord
04.11.2013 , 06:41 PM | #890
In the end, if you do not like an idea, do not post "How does this support our characters?" or something like that. It basically says you want nothing in the game unless it helps our characters in some way, and would rather have characters that are exclusively homosexual for our character and if they are not [FLIRT]able with our character, they should not have an orientation.

*this is not specifically for sithkoriandr, but in general*
Han Solo: Great, kid. Don't get cocky.