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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.01.2013 , 05:26 PM | #721
Quote: Originally Posted by markcymru View Post
So pining away because it’s better story-telling applies only to SGRs, eh? Or let’s say ‘mostly to SGRs’, before someone jumps in with the sophistry that they can’t romance HK-51 or Khem Val.

So people who are against SGRs because they think there’s something ‘wrong/sick/icky/etc’ with SGRs have perfectly valid reasons, eh? And we never did hear any argument against SGRs that didn’t ultimately boil down to ‘there’s something wrong/sick/icky/etc about SGRs’.

So when people said that gays weren’t in SW and therefore they shouldn’t be in SWTOR, and we argued against that -- we now have to accept a continuous stream of ‘put up with it because that’s realistic’ drivel about SGRs… in a fantasy game?

That’s BS.

I’m with you, Slaign ! Your post was brilliant.
Oooo...what a way to miss the point of that comment. *clap clap* Bravo. Yay! I'm sure you didn't do it on purpose.

Also, agree with Fury. Not that I don't want to play the hero, dont want to play the moisture farmer either. But from a RP persepctive i a group enviorment like an MMO, then those big events aren't really completed by you. They're not completed by the other players, they were completed by someone...not you.

Mind you, that's from a Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game perspective. If you ignore the whole MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER aspect of the game, or leave it to a small group, then you're right, IT TOTALLY WORKS!

BH walks up to other BH "Oh hi!" "Hi!" "So we meet again!" "Yup!" "Anything new?" "Yeah! Got married to Mako! You?" "I...got married to Mako...???" "..."

Eh, so many ways they could have done it better and open to everyone and made it work for MMO stories...but just how it goes.

I however can actually accept with how BW makes it all play out, as I'm not the one complaining it's not how I want it, but rather making suggestions and hoping.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

JediMB's Avatar


JediMB
04.01.2013 , 05:59 PM | #722
If you can't learn to compartmentalize parts of your MMO experience, as you already do with all other aspects of life, you're likely to feel a bit confused by the fact that every other Bounty Hunter player had an experience involving the same characters as you did.

Luckily, we're more than capable to handle that compartmentalization. Except some people selectively find themselves unable to when it comes to subjects like sexuality.

Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
I'm a straight male that identifies more strongly with female characters, and that puts me in a place where my choices are restricted in a way that I feel is frankly unfair.
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
Agreed. My only 50 is a Bounty Hunter. (See, I was able to do it once! I wanted to romance Mako but I powered through with a female BH anyway and romanced Torian instead. [..])
Well, neat. We have a few things in common.

I would have loved doing the romance story with Mako, but ended up settling with Torian. But in addition to him not being my type, what with him being a man, he didn't have a very engaging story. I'm hoping I'll enjoy the romance with Andronikos more, since he's introduced a bit earlier and is likely to have a more interesting story going for him.

In the end, if I have to choose between playing female or romancing a female character, I'll choose the former over the latter almost every time. I just wish, like you, that I didn't have to choose.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.01.2013 , 06:34 PM | #723
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
In the end, if I have to choose between playing female or romancing a female character, I'll choose the former over the latter almost every time. I just wish, like you, that I didn't have to choose.
Makes you wish they'd make a big patch that just changes the way they do things. That would be worth the 10-20 dollars of Makeb!
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
04.01.2013 , 07:01 PM | #724
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
If you can't learn to compartmentalize parts of your MMO experience, as you already do with all other aspects of life, you're likely to feel a bit confused by the fact that every other Bounty Hunter player had an experience involving the same characters as you did.
To me, it's not about learning to compartmentalize... it's the fact that it is an MMO. The mere words that those 3 letters stand for should say it all.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
04.01.2013 , 09:02 PM | #725
Quote: Originally Posted by FuryoftheStars View Post
To me, it's not about learning to compartmentalize... it's the fact that it is an MMO. The mere words that those 3 letters stand for should say it all.
With how BW made TOR, maybe that's why people forget it's an MMO? It really is that solo friendly.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
04.01.2013 , 10:00 PM | #726
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
With how BW made TOR, maybe that's why people forget it's an MMO? It really is that solo friendly.
It's entirely possible, although I have to say that other MMOs are guilty of it as well. I've only played a few MMOs, and in all honesty, I can't think of one that got it truly right. From what's left of my memory of SWG back during the first year or so of release, the side quests were at least done ok. I don't think I did many main ones if at all... most of my leveling experience was spent with friends going around and hunting bigger game... like the Krayt Dragons. :P
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Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
04.01.2013 , 10:42 PM | #727
Quote: Originally Posted by FuryoftheStars View Post
To me, it's not about learning to compartmentalize... it's the fact that it is an MMO. The mere words that those 3 letters stand for should say it all.
Sure, it's Massively Multiplayer Online - all that means is that thousands of people are online at once, playing the same game. However, the vast majority are not in groups playing together - the games caters to solo game play, and it seems that's what a lot of people do (I am one of them). And even when they're in groups, those groups are limited in size. It is possible to be social with a lot of people at once (in guilds and chat channels), but not possible to play with them all at once.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that the game itself compartmentalizes the Solo play from the Multiplayer bits, by instancing, by the default exclusion of the same class from class mission instances, and by the conversation system.

Also, the RPG part of the acronym doesn't exactly fit this game (and most MMOs, really) either. These games are more like interactive stories, than true RPGs.
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Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
04.02.2013 , 12:09 AM | #728
Like I said, I respect your guys' desire for games that canonize the existence off all the players. That's cool, and I'd be all for a game trying to pull that off. That's not this game, however. So it's not a solid place to base arguments from.

It's totally okay to have preferences toward games where the gameplay is as canonized as possible. That's fine. What I find narrow minded is the assertion that that's the only right way to do it. I'm sorry if you think that's offensive, but it's how I see it. When you see your preferences as rules that ought to be adhered to, that's narrow minded.

Your rules stifle creativity. It's like looking at a Picasso and claiming he's doing it wrong because he broke free of the traditional rules of art to create something out of the box. Hell, it's even worse than that, because doing it this way doesn't break any traditional rules, it's how pretty much everyone does it.

The kind of stories that would exist within the structures you define would be incredibly limited and boring to me. If you can't see how it's narrow minded to say that doing things in a way other than you personally prefer is "wrong" or "bad" then... Well that kind proves my point on the whole narrow minded thing. You can say it's not for you, but making a value judgement on how creators use the tools they have to create something is very rarely appropriate. Doing so in the face of people telling you they personally enjoy the result is downright closed minded.

As for the Jedi thing, yea there are a lot of Jedi in comparison to the Vader and beyond era, but not nearly enough to account for even a decent fraction of the players in this game. A mere 300 years ago the number of Jedi had been reduced to a paltry few dozen. At the height of the order's power, which was just before the clone wars, there were less than 20,000 Jedi. That may seem like a lot, but remember the population of Coruscant alone is ballpark 1 trillion souls. That's one planet in a galaxy of hundreds or thousands of known, inhabited planets.

Your chances of seeing a Jedi anywhere other than their temple is astronomically low, even at the best of times. And SWTOR takes place at a time far from the best of times. So yea, the entire premise of this game relies upon hand waving away the player population.

FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
04.02.2013 , 08:31 AM | #729
I'd really like to know how my view "stifles creativity". All I'm saying is that games that are about "your" personal story, rather than the story of all the players, should be SP games, while MMOs should be more about story arcs that include everyone playing. How is that stifling creativity? At no point in there am I saying that they can't do this or that in any game....

As for the number of Jedi, I'd have to go back and relook at some stuff, but I'm pretty sure that even during the war that leads to the "Rule of Two" there were many Jedi in the regular rank and file groups that were fighting (in each group, mind you, not just over all). There were enough on both sides that armor and weapons were expressly crafted with Cortosis in them so that regular troops would actually have a chance against lightsabers. If the total numbers of Jedi (and thus their Sith counterparts) were less than 20k on each side across the entire battlefield (the galaxy), then they wouldn't have been a common enough of a sight to even warrant the extra expense.... Not to mention that in KotOR, you probably kill close to that number of Sith, anyway... (or at least it feels it )

Now, that's not to say that there probably aren't too many Jedi running around in game as is. They probably could've done 1 Jedi class that then splits Knight/Consular, and then added in more non-Jedi class choices. That probably would've spread the player population out a bit more so that there were fewer active Jedi running around at any given point in time. As is, you probably see 50%+ Jedi running around because 50% of the class choices are Jedi and then you have people generally gravitating towards those classes because of the "cool" factor.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
04.02.2013 , 11:28 AM | #730
Quote: Originally Posted by FuryoftheStars View Post
I'd really like to know how my view "stifles creativity". All I'm saying is that games that are about "your" personal story, rather than the story of all the players, should be SP games, while MMOs should be more about story arcs that include everyone playing. How is that stifling creativity? At no point in there am I saying that they can't do this or that in any game....
You're using the word 'should'. There's no reason why such stories 'should' be only in single player games. Most players can separate the class story from the non-class stories and cope with the idea that there's not literally thousands of Barsen'thors running around. There is no 'should' here. There are different ways of doing the same thing and the way the SWTOR team decided to do it is by putting main-character stories in a multiplayer game.

They lock it down so the class stories can only ever be about one member of that class at a time anyway; even if you're grouped with another of your class only one person can benefit from a class story instance and make decisions in it. So really I'd say they've managed to convey the main-character story in a multiplayer game rather well.
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