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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.31.2013 , 03:00 PM | #671
Quote: Originally Posted by FuryoftheStars View Post
The story writer of that character.

Doesn't matter what a person's overt characteristics are like... if the story writer says that person is straight/gay/bi, then that's what they are.
Too bad the writers haven't come out and said what the companion's sexualities are, but if Quinn, an upstanding Imperial citizen, can be attracted to, and fall in love with, an alien, it stands to reason he could do so with a man.

Hell, I expect in the Empire, same-gender relationships between humans are more preferable than opposite-gender relationships between humans and aliens.

FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
03.31.2013 , 03:10 PM | #672
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
Giving me a character I don't like to romance in place of a character I adore on the premise that sexuality is immutable even on a meta-game level is unacceptable.
And yet I have to ask the question why? That's the way it is in RL. You drag RL in to get SGR in, but then toss it out the moment it's not convenient anymore? There needs to be a bit of give and take on this.
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LanceCorporalDan's Avatar


LanceCorporalDan
03.31.2013 , 03:48 PM | #673
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I want to confirm that what Dulfy stated is correct. I do want to assure you though that with any future SGRA releases it will be our goal to keep things more balanced across faction and gender.

-eric


What was the logic in doing this? I must ask!

If you start something (especially this controversial) then I would expect you all to at least deliver in full and not push through a half finished product.
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Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
03.31.2013 , 05:45 PM | #674
Quote: Originally Posted by FuryoftheStars View Post
And yet I have to ask the question why? That's the way it is in RL. You drag RL in to get SGR in, but then toss it out the moment it's not convenient anymore? There needs to be a bit of give and take on this.
I identify as lesbian IRL, I relate better to female character, and I relate better to female/female romances. It should absolutely be an option for me to play lesbian characters. Not because it reflects RL to have LGBT people in the game (which it does anyway), but because I, as a lesbian, want to have the option to play a character like me. (This should go for everyone, I add for clarity, not just me.)

The other thing to bear in mind is that there are many many people playing each class - and yet the storyline acts like you are the only one of that class. Having one or two members of the crew for that character being bisexual (or potentially gay/lesbian) is quite possible and within the proportions you'd expect for a universe filled with billions of people*. Even if every class has two herosexual companions (which may well be the way things work out, if they ever get around to adding SGRA with companions), it's still quite possible/realistic statistically speaking**.

Sometimes people with things/attributes in common group together. Shocking, I know.

* Even if every single member of that character's crew were gay/lesbian or bisexual, it would still be statistically possible.
** To expand on the point: Straight PCs may never realize that their same gender companions can potentially go both ways, as the companion only reacts to the PCs interactions with them, and if that PC never flirts, that companion will seem sexually neutral (ie: indeterminate sexuality) or straight depending on how the player wishes to read it. Likewise opposite gender companions will react when flirted with by the PC, therefore may seem straight.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
03.31.2013 , 07:08 PM | #675
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
Race, not species. There is a difference. Skin color might not carry much connotation in the Star Wars universe, but it certainly does in ours. If you argue that skin color doesn't have connotation in the SWU and that's why it's OK to be able to change your companion's race at will, I can then argue that sexual orientation should carry just as little connotation and be just as malleable.

...
I just had to comment on this, as I find it interesting.

I would like to believe (optimist that I am) that were humanity on this planet find itself in a Galactic environment, populated with sophisticated civilized life considerably different on a biological scale, that the notion of skin color defining race would fall away. That people of Earth-stock would consider themselves of one race -- the Human Race -- as opposed to the other races in the galaxy.

When I'm building a character in TOR, skin color is merely an aesthetic that I pick for whatever reason I feel like at the time. I don't consider I'm making a white person or a black person or a yellow person or a blue person. I do consider I'm making a Human or a Miraluka or a Twi'lek though.

When I put on a companion customization and their skin changes color, I don't consider I'm changing their race. Actually, until your post above, my mind didn't even go there at all.

Now, I'm not trying to argue about weather or not there should be a "companion customization" that changes sexuality. But I am trying to say that I consider skin color in this game has no bearing on race.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
03.31.2013 , 07:30 PM | #676
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
I identify as lesbian IRL, I relate better to female character, and I relate better to female/female romances. It should absolutely be an option for me to play lesbian characters. Not because it reflects RL to have LGBT people in the game (which it does anyway), but because I, as a lesbian, want to have the option to play a character like me. (This should go for everyone, I add for clarity, not just me.)
I've been for SGR in the game since the beginning. I get that people want to play themselves in game. Makes sense, I guess, I've never made myself in any MMO, but I know there's people who somehow can't make a character that doesn't truely represent themselves.

But the question is based on your comment, where in the game has it ever stopped you from playing a lesbian?

Looking back over all the game, I've yet to see anywhere where it stops you from playing a lesbian.

Does a lack of flirt options stop your character from being a lesbian? Does a lack of romance story lines, stop you from saying your character is a lesbian?

What because there are no flirt options means your character can't find whatever NPC attractive? If that's the case, shouldn't they just give a flirt option with every NPC in game, since someone might think that NPC is attractive to their character?

I've played a Sith Inquisitor (basically OGR as I see her), a Smuggler (Bi), SW (Poly - which BW will never implement ), BH (Bi) all to level 44-50 levels. My smuggler has seen the most flirt lines, and even then, it really isn't that many flirt options. My JK hasn't had many flirt options either, but that's only up to level 23-25

So it's not like these OGR flirt options are making your character OGR, as you can just not select them. And even with SGR flirt options put in (YAY!) it'll be just like the OGR flirt options "Awww...why no flirt option for this NPC?!"

To the other poster, there is nothing unfair about what BW did with Makeb and SGR. They made the planet quest givers SGR flirtable. They're the planet quest giver, so it's not like there are a lot of those. They then threw in SGR flirts for both genders on both sides.

Unfair would be if they just made the planet quest giver SGR flirtable and left it at that. And from what's been said (I haven't confirmed) it sounds like they put SGR flirts on planets before Makeb, so you don't have to get to 50 first to see them.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Slaign's Avatar


Slaign
03.31.2013 , 09:52 PM | #677
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I just had to comment on this, as I find it interesting.

I would like to believe (optimist that I am) that were humanity on this planet find itself in a Galactic environment, populated with sophisticated civilized life considerably different on a biological scale, that the notion of skin color defining race would fall away. That people of Earth-stock would consider themselves of one race -- the Human Race -- as opposed to the other races in the galaxy.

When I'm building a character in TOR, skin color is merely an aesthetic that I pick for whatever reason I feel like at the time. I don't consider I'm making a white person or a black person or a yellow person or a blue person. I do consider I'm making a Human or a Miraluka or a Twi'lek though.

When I put on a companion customization and their skin changes color, I don't consider I'm changing their race. Actually, until your post above, my mind didn't even go there at all.

Now, I'm not trying to argue about weather or not there should be a "companion customization" that changes sexuality. But I am trying to say that I consider skin color in this game has no bearing on race.
Sure, but then the entire concept of "race" would fall away. We wouldn't be "the human race" we would be "the human species," because race is a division of groups within our species. If we stopped classifying people into ethnic groups, "race" wouldn't have a meaning anymore.

It's an example. If you change a person's skin color and expect no change in their personality, congrats, your head is in the right place. If you realize that, hopefully you can also realize that changing their sexuality shouldn't require any broader consequences.

People on both sides of the issue have said that herosexuality would be bad because they seem to think that making a character change sexuality without fundamentally changing who they are is sloppy. As if Mako being gay would change anything else about her. It makes me really sad that even some of those on the progressive side of this issue don't see how regressive that thinking is.

FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
03.31.2013 , 10:02 PM | #678
Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
I identify as lesbian IRL, I relate better to female character, and I relate better to female/female romances. It should absolutely be an option for me to play lesbian characters. Not because it reflects RL to have LGBT people in the game (which it does anyway), but because I, as a lesbian, want to have the option to play a character like me. (This should go for everyone, I add for clarity, not just me.)
And I'm certainly not trying to deny you that, or somehow say that you can't.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
The other thing to bear in mind is that there are many many people playing each class - and yet the storyline acts like you are the only one of that class. Having one or two members of the crew for that character being bisexual (or potentially gay/lesbian) is quite possible and within the proportions you'd expect for a universe filled with billions of people*. Even if every class has two herosexual companions (which may well be the way things work out, if they ever get around to adding SGRA with companions), it's still quite possible/realistic statistically speaking**.
The part in bold... a point of contention I have with this game, but is off-topic for here. Otherwise, you are absolutely correct... however, the chances of all of them being bi are slim. But nonetheless, it still comes down to the story writer, how they envisioned the character(s).

Quote: Originally Posted by Zandilar View Post
Sometimes people with things/attributes in common group together. Shocking, I know.
Except for one problem... so far, each of the class stories I've started and run, most of the companions don't join your group because they "like you". It's because you have a common end goal, no choice, or some level of prestige. Thus, sexuality plays no roll.
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FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
03.31.2013 , 10:04 PM | #679
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
To the other poster, there is nothing unfair about what BW did with Makeb and SGR. They made the planet quest givers SGR flirtable. They're the planet quest giver, so it's not like there are a lot of those. They then threw in SGR flirts for both genders on both sides.

Unfair would be if they just made the planet quest giver SGR flirtable and left it at that. And from what's been said (I haven't confirmed) it sounds like they put SGR flirts on planets before Makeb, so you don't have to get to 50 first to see them.
I'm... assuming that was directed towards me? I haven't said anything about the current setup being unfair. I am merely discussing the point of making all flirt-able NPCs bi.
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FuryoftheStars's Avatar


FuryoftheStars
03.31.2013 , 10:24 PM | #680
Quote: Originally Posted by Slaign View Post
People on both sides of the issue have said that herosexuality would be bad because they seem to think that making a character change sexuality without fundamentally changing who they are is sloppy. As if Mako being gay would change anything else about her. It makes me really sad that even some of those on the progressive side of this issue don't see how regressive that thinking is.
Well, the act of changing someone's sexuality does actually change who they are... even if it is not overtly noticed. But I'm not saying it'd be sloppy. (And actually, frankly, I think they have other, bigger problems with their whole story setup... but that's digressing.) For me, personally, it breaks a level of immersion to know that every flirt-able NPC is bi. We may be in a world of "your hero's story" (which frankly makes no sense in an MMO...), but reality is that not everyone you flirt with is going to accept your advance... just like how Dorne turns down the Trooper's advances before becoming your companion (that's my experience with running it, anyway. Don't know if anyone else had a different one).

Sooo... Some straight, some gay, and some bi. We talk about accurately depicting the current state of society or reality in this game where romance is concerned, why is it that RL suddenly goes out the window when someone asks who should be SGR?
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