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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
02.28.2014 , 06:40 AM | #3271
Quote: Originally Posted by vadess View Post
*sniffles*

No, seriously, this makes me sad. Shows that LGBT has a LONG way to go. After all, one would think they've shown that they have value enough to deserve to see positive reflections of them in the media. I hope Bioware turns these attitudes around.
To be honest, unless they actually hire someone who's in the LGBT community (i.e. not a straight/cis ally) to be a writer, I highly doubt they will, as it's entirely likely that the writers they have on currently (Mr. Hood and Mr. Boyd, I believe, are the only ones left) do not give consideration to the impact of their writing and believe the stories exist in a vacuum. (To put it more succinctly, Mr. Hood and Mr. Boyd are blinded by their own privilege and think that everyone has the same experiences as them. Of course it's not possible to know that for sure, but the current state of the stories - women can't be without men, gay men die, etc. - at least points to the need for that awareness at some level of the process)

DomiSotto's Avatar


DomiSotto
02.28.2014 , 07:14 AM | #3272
The meagerness of romantic content written specifically for a female PC is a bigger issue than just the lack of the same gender options. It is the whole backward thinking: We have too few female gamers... we won't do anything. Well, if you are not trying to engage a female gamer, you won't get a female gamer.

I can't say how annoying it is to complain that there are no flirts at all, and hear in response: Play a Male Smuggler.

vadess's Avatar


vadess
02.28.2014 , 08:47 AM | #3273
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
To be honest, unless they actually hire someone who's in the LGBT community (i.e. not a straight/cis ally) to be a writer, I highly doubt they will, as it's entirely likely that the writers they have on currently (Mr. Hood and Mr. Boyd, I believe, are the only ones left) do not give consideration to the impact of their writing and believe the stories exist in a vacuum. (To put it more succinctly, Mr. Hood and Mr. Boyd are blinded by their own privilege and think that everyone has the same experiences as them. Of course it's not possible to know that for sure, but the current state of the stories - women can't be without men, gay men die, etc. - at least points to the need for that awareness at some level of the process)
Ummm... Tatile, I hope you realize that if you keep using terms like "cis ally" and stuff then all you're doing is promoting a different kind of prejudice. After all I am a cisfemale. I was born a girl and I grew up into a woman, and I identify myself as such. Furthermore, I am straight. I am attracted to men in both social and sexual ways. And yet here I am supporting the inclusion of SGR in the game.

Just because someone is a cisgender and straight, doesn't mean they're automatically against the LGBT community. How can you expect other people to let go of their prejudices, and make a more inclusive game, if you don't let go of your own? Your own being, from what I've read in recent posts, is that people who are cisgender and straight are automatically against LGBT people and SGR content.
Have 7 days subscription, and a free character transfer on me: http://www.swtor.com/r/yM6Njk

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
02.28.2014 , 08:54 AM | #3274
Quote: Originally Posted by DomiSotto View Post
The meagerness of romantic content written specifically for a female PC is a bigger issue than just the lack of the same gender options. It is the whole backward thinking: We have too few female gamers... we won't do anything. Well, if you are not trying to engage a female gamer, you won't get a female gamer.

I can't say how annoying it is to complain that there are no flirts at all, and hear in response: Play a Male Smuggler.
They may not be comparable, but I believe they stem from the same issues: the assumption that 99.99% of the people playing this game are straight (cis) men, who therefore don't want to see SGR [Flirt] options with male NPCs, nor OGR [Flirt] options when on their female characters (because it will make them feel gay.) And I've also complained about the "marriage= tonnes of babies" thing that happens. I mean, seriously, you marry your NPC partner and then it's all about babies before they fall into a stony, all-encompassing silence for the rest of eternity. Joy.

vadess's Avatar


vadess
02.28.2014 , 09:01 AM | #3275
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
I mean, seriously, you marry your NPC partner and then it's all about babies before they fall into a stony, all-encompassing silence for the rest of eternity. Joy.
Isn't having children kind of part of the marriage relationship? Even within marriages where the partners are of the same sex want to have children. That is not a bad thing, necessarily, it is just the norm.
Have 7 days subscription, and a free character transfer on me: http://www.swtor.com/r/yM6Njk

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
02.28.2014 , 09:07 AM | #3276
Quote: Originally Posted by vadess View Post
Isn't having children kind of part of the marriage relationship? Even within marriages where the partners are of the same sex want to have children. That is not a bad thing, necessarily, it is just the norm.
Is it? I was under the impression that my wedding vows (secular) did not entail me carrying a tiny human in my stomach for roughly nine months. It might be "common", but that does not necessarily mean that every relationship involves having - or getting - children.

Quote: Originally Posted by vadess View Post
Ummm... Tatile, I hope you realize that if you keep using terms like "cis ally" and stuff then all you're doing is promoting a different kind of prejudice. After all I am a cisfemale. I was born a girl and I grew up into a woman, and I identify myself as such. Furthermore, I am straight. I am attracted to men in both social and sexual ways. And yet here I am supporting the inclusion of SGR in the game.

Just because someone is a cisgender and straight, doesn't mean they're automatically against the LGBT community. How can you expect other people to let go of their prejudices, and make a more inclusive game, if you don't let go of your own? Your own being, from what I've read in recent posts, is that people who are cisgender and straight are automatically against LGBT people and SGR content.
I was saying that, regardless of whether or not one is an ally of the LGBT community, that one cannot necessarily know how one thing or other will be received and reflected onto LGBT players, and that having a gay man, or a lesbian woman, or a bisexual person, or a trans woman, or a trans man, would allow for a different perspective and a widening of views on the story and the game.

Of course, I suppose I should at this point just stop talking, as it seems I've been mistaken.

vadess's Avatar


vadess
02.28.2014 , 09:14 AM | #3277
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Is it? I was under the impression that my wedding vows (secular) did not entail me carrying a tiny human in my stomach for roughly nine months. It might be "common", but that does not necessarily mean that every relationship involves having - or getting - children.
I didn't say that. At the same time, that doesn't mean the possibility should not be 100% cut out of the game.

An inclusive game would have the options for people to choose how their characters want to be. And that would include with companions and stuff the possibility of having children, as it is something many people, both same gender and opposite gender, couples want to do; and it is something many couples, same gender and opposite gender, don't want. One group should not take priority over the other. That's the point of including SGR in a game: one kind of romance should not take priority over the other. And yet here are some of these posts recently being posted here that are almost doing just that: Not promoting equality where everyone has freedom of choice, but promoting one group people and one way of living over another.

Tatile, is this about promoting and advocating for SGR in SWTOR? Or about you forcing how you choose to live your life in terms of romance onto the game? Cause if it's the latter, then don't be surprised if people try to force how they want to live their lives onto you and keep the status quo within the game.
Have 7 days subscription, and a free character transfer on me: http://www.swtor.com/r/yM6Njk

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
02.28.2014 , 09:16 AM | #3278
It's about choice.
I'd rather have the choice not to hear about children after the marriage proposal, thank you. I suppose I should not be talking about my personal life. Thank you.

DomiSotto's Avatar


DomiSotto
02.28.2014 , 12:12 PM | #3279
I vote variety. There are characters that lend themselves beautifully for the marriage, family and children epilogues/talks, but there are characters which lend themselves to the different type of romance. This is particular true on the Jedi side, because I personally would not mind a romance where a Jedi manages to love, but not commit. Not because it is a quasi-monastic order, but because you are believably have two mature characters commited to their vocation more than they are to personal happiness. In an epic world, you have a chance to have aspirations uncommon to what you have in regular life. That's kindda cool Anyway, more RP options for a female player is something I will always vote for - and NOT at the expense of the male player.

sentientomega's Avatar


sentientomega
03.01.2014 , 09:58 AM | #3280
I don't know why Bioware (or a representative or same) said in '09 that homosexuality didn't exist in the SW universe, that was like saying in the future we'll be living in caves and dinosaurs will return; it beggars believe, but even though they've recanted they seem to be very reluctant to actually dabble in SGRs because of the afeared drop in sales income because of the huge number of bigoted morons around the place.

Star Wars is a futuristic environment (despite it's time setting of being long ago) that explores new ideas, makes discoveries, and I very much doubt that any species or culture on the galaxy would reject homosexuality, especially as there are so many people around; they wouldn't care who liked whom, it wouldn't make any sense if they did; this is the SW galaxy, where LGBT matters are the least bizarre concept, and TOR should reflect that.

I'm glad Bioware made a start in this area, and seeing as how they managed to make all companions straight with romance and everything else; there are no prizes for guessing what they really meant when they said SGRs would be "difficult to implement"...

And as for relationship variety, or rather, not becoming a pair of non-stop breeding machines, the option for a lack of total commitment should be in.