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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.08.2013 , 07:15 PM | #301
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
Never going to win by putting in the bare minium of effort, though.
"Oh, that thing we've been dodging for over a year? Oh yeah... umm, we're gonna pretend we never said companion arcs, but have a one-night stand in the expansion. That's just as good, right?"

Avatar's problem was they just threw some crap together as an excuse plot for special effects.


(Just realised - the newest new regime's had nothing to say in here. Everyone who's shocked, raise your hand)
Hahahaha. They'll post in another year, telling us they had to leave same-sex [Flirt]s out of Makeb because of cost problems, but they really are coming in the next expansion, honest.

Also, Avatar was Pocahontas and Fern Gully in space. But why are we talking about Avatar? That movie was crap.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
03.08.2013 , 08:51 PM | #302
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post


Well, I have a better solution for Bioware Austin. Next time you create a game with romances in them, don't make them OGR only.

Win, win, doublewhammy win.

Thanks a lot.
Likely, as they said just making everyone romancable was the easiest option. So that suprises me. Of course, it would have made for a terrible storyline game, where it should be "okay this character is, this one isn't", but then they likely would have had detractors going crying about that, and wondering why there wasn't one member of their crew that was SGR, unable to accept that maybe it didn't make sense for anyone on that crew.

Lots of what ifs really, but then, having put it in as you mentioned is a what if, and could have made TOR bomb. Who knows. It's something a few of us want in, but we'll never know if not adding it would have kept people from leaving to begin wtih or maybe it would have gotten less people to play from the start.

*shrug* What ifs and more what ifs.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.09.2013 , 04:50 AM | #303
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Likely, as they said just making everyone romancable was the easiest option. So that suprises me. Of course, it would have made for a terrible storyline game, where it should be "okay this character is, this one isn't", but then they likely would have had detractors going crying about that, and wondering why there wasn't one member of their crew that was SGR, unable to accept that maybe it didn't make sense for anyone on that crew.
That's what I meant when I said "Employ the right people for the job."
I don't think it's a daunting task to create characters that have multi-facetted sexual orientation or one that isn't pinpointed the first place, especially in a fantasy setting. I've created some and I am by no means a professional writer. You need to stretch your imagination a little and make it work, but it's not rocket science. DA2 pulled it off. ME3 pulled it off. They have creative precedents of how it can work in their own house. It doesn't really get any easier.

Not saying that current writers aren't able to pull it off, some of them don't seem averse to opening up companions they've written to SGR or may have had SGR intentions for them from the start. It was a wilful decision of BW Austin to omitt SGR when the game started though and it's just showing that this has bitten them in the *** in hindsight, so much so they need the Human Rights Campaign now for advise on how to do things better in the future.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Lots of what ifs really, but then, having put it in as you mentioned is a what if, and could have made TOR bomb. Who knows. It's something a few of us want in, but we'll never know if not adding it would have kept people from leaving to begin wtih or maybe it would have gotten less people to play from the start.
TOR bombed anyway, due to many bad decisions that were made in the early days. If people had left the game over SGR back then, those same people will presumeably leave when Makeb comes, so saving SGR up until now hasn't really changed much in this respect. I still find it hard to believe that people would have been suprised, had SGR been in from the start, or feel duped, because EA/BW has a clear history on this. And seeing the same posters still lurking around General, those three or four that said they would leave if SGR were implemented, makes me think that much of their outrage was just hot air and no real substance.

On the other side, we had people in favour of SGR actually leaving, due to their frustration over how this matter was handled. Many of the original posters in this thread have not been showing up for quite a while. I've thought of quitting over this and I've had my sub lapse over this. And depending on where they take things in the future I might still leave over this.

Maybe some will come back, some might be turned off EA/BW games forever. That really depends on how EA/BW will handle such things in the future. That's gonna be interesting to watch.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
03.09.2013 , 06:39 AM | #304
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Maybe some will come back, some might be turned off EA/BW games forever. That really depends on how EA/BW will handle such things in the future. That's gonna be interesting to watch.
We shall see - I've been deliberately not following the progress of Dragon Age 3, because I don't want to spoiler myself. When I install and run the game I don't wanna know anything about it, not even vague opinions. But I seriously doubt there won't be same gender romances in it...
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.09.2013 , 06:49 AM | #305
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
We shall see - I've been deliberately not following the progress of Dragon Age 3, because I don't want to spoiler myself. When I install and run the game I don't wanna know anything about it, not even vague opinions. But I seriously doubt there won't be same gender romances in it...
That's because it's made be a different Bioware studio, one that upholds and believes in inclusion and does so as part of its standard practice, unlike this studio, which appears to be surprised by every notion ranging from "I'd like to go up the mountain" to "I'd like equal and fair treatment for all genders and sexualities, both in storyline choices and gear options in-game."

And I've been trying to contact Mr. Musco, Mr. Hood and Ms. Woods about some of the things that have come up recently (being forced into romances, not being able to end romances, whether or not the Makeb options will be reciprocated [Flirt]s or just the chance to get brutally shot down at every turn), but they all seem to be ignoring me. So much for increased communication. I don't want to post in a thread, because then I open myself up to the misogyny and homophobia that's rife on these boards and I just can't. Why should I have to subject myself to attacks on my person when all I want is an answer from Bioware?

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
03.09.2013 , 02:33 PM | #306
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Well, SWTOR's 'gay planet' gets a honorary mention at the EA event:

http://www.polygon.com/2013/3/8/4076...-full-spectrum

Wow, actually they're going on about it quite a bit, further down in the article, even the forum moderation gets mentioned.

Interesting, albeit a little defensive on BW Austin's part.

"All you can do is the best you can."
That part cracked me up. "Sometimes you can't win for losing."

It's as if they don't know what we want...I mean, there hasn't been multiple incantations of a thread over the last year asking for companion romances and giving suggestions on how to implement them even with post-game content.

No...nothing like that.

...and why would anyone even want companions romances? It's not like they felt the need to add a bunch of OGRA with companions or anything.

One night stands and flirts that go nowhere FTW!
Node guarder

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.09.2013 , 02:44 PM | #307
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
One night stands and flirts that go nowhere FTW!
Yes! Everyone knows the only real and meaningful relationships can be had between people who can have children in the traditional biological manner! Ban all inter-species romances, I say! They require technological intervention for reproduction!

*face palm* If Bioware seriously believe that one stands and single [Flirt] options are equivalent to the full fledged, marriage-at-the-end, committed relationships, they need their heads checked.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
03.09.2013 , 08:02 PM | #308
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
Yes! Everyone knows the only real and meaningful relationships can be had between people who can have children in the traditional biological manner! Ban all inter-species romances, I say! They require technological intervention for reproduction!

*face palm* If Bioware seriously believe that one stands and single [Flirt] options are equivalent to the full fledged, marriage-at-the-end, committed relationships, they need their heads checked.
I don't recall them saying there'd be anymore to their SGR than that, when they said they would put in SGR. Did I miss a post?

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.09.2013 , 08:55 PM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
We shall see - I've been deliberately not following the progress of Dragon Age 3, because I don't want to spoiler myself. When I install and run the game I don't wanna know anything about it, not even vague opinions. But I seriously doubt there won't be same gender romances in it...
I don't doubt for a second DA3 will have SGR. I don't doubt the next ME will have SGR.
What I really doubt is Bioware Austin understanding how exactly they messed things up and learning from that.
Maybe they will but I'm just not sure about them being capable of that.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
03.10.2013 , 03:07 AM | #310
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I don't doubt for a second DA3 will have SGR. I don't doubt the next ME will have SGR.
What I really doubt is Bioware Austin understanding how exactly they messed things up and learning from that.
Maybe they will but I'm just not sure about them being capable of that.
I hope the next game in the Mass Effect universe will let me choose to play an Asari, at which point gender becomes irrelevant... Of course they appear to be women to the human beholder and all in-game explanation cannot veil that fact; while the players know they aren't supposed to have a gender, the lot of players perceives them as female and they trigger all the stimuli. If they want to limit Asari in any way they might forbid or make it seriously more difficult to choose other Asari in any way. Which of course would have the side effect that a "forbidden romance" is even sweeter for the purpose of story telling - Romeo and Juliet, Lancelot and Guinevere...

--- On a few different recent topics ---
I don't really mind that the romances are detached from companion characters. I think it was a mistake to do so in the first place. I've played through very few romances yet - I think Vector was the only one in fact. The single-one romance that stroke me most was one from the Imperial Agent storyline, which was limited to one planet as well. It just felt right, especially due to the events that had occurred around my agent at this point. I believe that non-companion characters should actually be full romance options. Watcher 2, Master Kiwiks... A companion who is tied to a location could in fact give you a place to come home to, so to say, if they were actual romances beyond one-night stands.

And if I think from my main's perspective, I don't think there could be anything sweeter than, say, a surprisingly philosophic, lovely twi'lek bar maiden, who's frustrated with all the obsession our kind incites and challenges me for being a Jedi Master as a killer machine on her own moral highground and I get to show her what the light side feels like... It doesn't have to be eternal love, it just has to be honest and a sweet memory.

For me its not a matter of principle - I just want some sweet romances in the game, and tying the full romances to companions in the first place.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."