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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.08.2013 , 07:47 AM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
The lack of clips from SWTOR is telling in many ways. Doesn't look like we'll have any note-worthy interactions on Makeb, then :/
It was sweet to see the couples in their old age, though.
Too bad this won't change the opinion of many gamers. (Though, I have seen a lot less hate on the forums directed towards us now - the "who would you romance" thread is doing well with only one or two people being idiots in it. Must've been the Makeb announcement that made the "waahh, gays! I'll quit!" people put their subscription where their bigotry was.)
I certainly hope so.

I must say I'm kind of on the fence when it comes to this video.

I appreciate the fact they made it. I really do.
I totally appreciate the fact they included one of my fav SGR couples in it, male Shep and Kaidan, certainly not the least controversial SGR option out there, Shep being one of their most famous characters and them (finally, after some back and forth between BW and gamers) making him SGR-compatible in the last edition of ME not sitting right with some in the playerbase (those not into SGR) claiming this basically ruined their bromance between Kaidan and Shep.

Yet Bioware never apologized for doing it afterwards but boasted this inclusion proudly. And I commend them for it.

Then again, they could have done more, see below.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
"The full spectrum" is not entirely accurate when it comes to what is shown in this video... something is amiss.
At first I thought this was a video cut together by fans, not an official EA release. Oh, and Traynor doesn't count ...
That's kind of what I thought as well, the first part. Lots is amiss.
They showed scenes from DA2 (Anders and Hawke) but omitted Fenris and Hawke.
They omitted DA-O altogether. Zhevran would not like this.

I do think Trainor counts, I do like the fact that she and Cortez were included as same-sex exclusive options, but then again they could have included Cortez.

What I'm saying is, they could have shown a lot more. They have a great history of SGR inclusion in their games and they SHOULD boast it, even more than they've done already.

This would maybe lead other EA franchises (BW Austin, I'm looking at you) to step up a notch and deliver on SGR inclusion front, following their tradition.

At least this video lends more credibility to our cause and whenever some annoying dude (or girl) over in General claims SGR inclusion ruins their game for them, I will gladly shove a link to that video down their throat from now on, hopefully shutting them up about it in the future.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
03.08.2013 , 07:50 AM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMB View Post
I was near-ecstatic when I recently read a Project Eternity update that detailed how the tools and systems Obsidian are working on will let them quickly refit any armor they create to go with a variety of body types. That's the sort of forward thinking BioWare would have needed during preproduction of SWTOR.
I don't think it's something that just accidently happened. It was a deliberate design decision. And I can imagine how they came to that decision. Simply put, you have a better animation quality, less clipping problems, cheaper wearable equipment design, a much, much higher maximum of complexity you can reach with animation at lower cost on the one hand, and diversity on the other hand.

EDIT: The actually most important factor however is the client computer requirements. If you want the game to run on a three-year old computer that cost 400 EUR, you don't want them to calculate every single model on the fly before you send the model to the graphics card for display. You don't want the computer to be forced to display all too many different models at the same time. That is especially for MMO designed for large scale mass PvP, such as Warhammer Online. But it reduces the load on client machines in every context.

That equipment looks dynamically adjusts to the characters is nothing new in video games. Star Wars Galaxies was like this as well... it's just so that, with the success of WoW, it became apparent that if you want to produce a game for a mass audience, it's better not to bother them with too much customization options. While "image designer" was an own profession in Star Wars Galaxies, and only those image designers had the full range of options, of which no more than 10% were included in character creation, video game magazines in the mid to late 2000s gave games that had more than 6 sliders or so worse ratings, because personal customization was more considered a needless obstacle, than actual worthwhile content on its own. Exceptions to the rule were games like Champions Online, designed for the explicite purpose of providing a maximum of customizablility, but in general, after the insane wave of success of World of Warcraft, for a while visual customizability was considered a bad thing, though hardly anyone would have put it that way.

SWG was a very experimental game. They tried many things that no one had ever tried before. SW:TOR is the opposite - it was an extremely expensive game and no one wanted to take much of a risk. All the game concepts are proven to work, except for the fully-voiced and the kind of story telling which reminds of Mass Effect, there is nothing entirely new in this game. It was better to be solid than brilliant. That is a kind of risk control. If you develop a several hundred million dollar game, you must make sure it works. Thus, it is extremely conservative in many regards.

Thus, while I personally seriously dislike the decision to work with fixed body types, it's only a consequent decision looking at the game as a whole.
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
03.08.2013 , 08:27 AM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
That's kind of what I thought as well, the first part. Lots is amiss.
They showed scenes from DA2 (Anders and Hawke) but omitted Fenris and Hawke.
They omitted DA-O altogether. Zhevran would not like this.
What I actually meant was that the full spectrum would include hetero as well.

EDIT: On a side note - my favourite gay romance in all Bioware games was Leliana with a female warden and they omitted that as well. That it was a bit awkward at time though... 'Leliana... I am an elf, for the love of god. You're one foot taller than I am and much more curvy. So could I please sit on your lap? I feel somewhat squashed beneath you and I would really like to kiss your neck but... I just can't reach it!'
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
03.08.2013 , 08:38 AM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
What I actually meant was that the full spectrum would include hetero as well.
Well, that would be celebrating romances in general, me thinks, not necessarily an option when you want to highlight the 'Hate is not a game' motto.

The video, btw, is not a promo video but a teaser trailer for an event EA were holding, about SGR inclusion and LGBT themes in games.

Sounds quite interesting.

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com...13/03/07/62043

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
03.08.2013 , 09:14 AM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
The lack of clips from SWTOR is telling in many ways. Doesn't look like we'll have any note-worthy interactions on Makeb, then :/
They wouldn't be able to show it even if this 'awesome Makeb stuff' existed.

Not that I think it exists or anything
Node guarder

Anglvamp's Avatar


Anglvamp
03.08.2013 , 12:50 PM | #286
I'm on the fence also about this video.

Its cool that they made it and had clips from their games that show that they do indeed care and include LGBT and our community. I've enjoyed BW games in the past, and would like to enjoy them in the future.

However; since they have gone to great lengths to use this inclusion as a marketing technique, it upset me quite a bit that SGRs were not in TOR. Feels a little 'bait and switch' to me. Nothing I'm gonna quit the game over, cause there are plenty of other things to enjoy, but the absence feels more absent.

Still hoping they show us something special with Makeb, but I'm not holding my breath.

^.^
NO one said SGR content should be at the top of the priority list, but eventually you have to get to the bottom of the list

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
03.08.2013 , 12:58 PM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
What I actually meant was that the full spectrum would include hetero as well.
Agree on this. Not exactly full spectrum, but I get they were basically showcasing SGR and to tell everyone "Look how progressive and accepting we are, play our games"

As for the not showing of Star Wars, I don't think anything in that video was linked to a new game, so hold out hope people! Hope isn't bad! Hope is good! I'm not expecting companion style storylines, but possibly one akin to the female Inquisitors romance storyline on Alderaan (I believe that was the planet) with a fellow Sith.

So more than a flirt, is what I'm expecting. Now the hope is it's not disappointing. Using my BH as an example as she's actually imo more SGR leaning, if the SGR option was with someone akin to Ashara she'd never take the option. But if it was someone like Mako, she would!

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.08.2013 , 02:24 PM | #288
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
What I actually meant was that the full spectrum would include hetero as well.
While that may be true, heterosexual romances are everywhere. No one complains about those. You don't have anyone threatening to quit or screaming about their sensitive children or how how EA/Bioware are sending everyone on some dark moral path into oblivion because a man and a woman can exchange niceties and kiss. You do have that against homosexual relationships, however, and that's why videos like this are important.

EA's solidifying their stand of "We're being inclusive and you can either deal with it or go somewhere else."* Once they no longer feel it necessary to "convince" people that this inclusive stance is inherent to the company and something permanent, I imagine they'll be doing videos which show both hetero- and homosexual romances side-by-side.

I do think that their video should have had more PoC representation, but it was amazingly sweet to see the old couples.


Quote: Originally Posted by Anglvamp View Post
Still hoping they show us something special with Makeb, but I'm not holding my breath.

^.^
Same, especially after Mr. Gonzalez pretty much said that the [Flirt]s would be one off things, which may or may not be reciprocated or even lead to anything. That's be fantastic, Bioware, being forced to wait over a year and half, level to 53 to have the chance to [Flirt] with an NPC of the same gender, only to be shot down because my character is somehow "the only gay in the galaxy". But hey, it's realistic!

God I wish they'd just put Makeb on the PTS so we can find out how disappointing it's going to be and all the detractors can get their angry-loling out of the way.

Rabenschwinge's Avatar


Rabenschwinge
03.08.2013 , 03:53 PM | #289
Might it be that there is a footnote missing? There is an asterisk but no matching footnote...
Ah, yes. "Reapers."

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
03.08.2013 , 04:18 PM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by Rabenschwinge View Post
Might it be that there is a footnote missing? There is an asterisk but no matching footnote...
Was going to put something in about BW:Austin not adhering to the usual practices of the rest of Bioware or EA, then decided against it, forgot to remove the asterisk...