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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

timidobserver's Avatar


timidobserver
11.29.2013 , 01:29 PM | #2791
[QUOTE=Joushigun;6982443]
Quote: Originally Posted by timidobserver View Post
Yeh I'll never persronally support it, but I would be perfectly fine with the addition if the devs decide that the benefit of adding this is worth the resources. I would be annoyed if they decide to add it to make a statement or to bring in equality./QUOTE]

So, my 'rewrite' of what you wrote was accurate. Thank you for acknowledging that. Secondly, it does benefit the game. IF they had no OGR's at all, it would be a simple thing to just not have romance arcs in the game at all; however, members of the LGBT Community are more likely to buy or support games which are inclusive and represent them in some fashion- which means more money, and are less likely to buy or support games if they are exclusive- as in having only heterosexual romance arcs.

Simply put, if they included SGR's, more LGBT people would be willing to play the game and use the Cartel Market. Excluding SGR's means that fewer LGBT people are unwilling to play the game and use the Cartel Market.
Nothing in what I've written proves your rewrite of my post to be accurate. What is so hard about responding explicitly to what I say instead of rewriting into something that is inflammatory and easier for you to respond to.
Just responding to what I say would make the discussion much more productive.

I never said it doesn't benefit the game. I said it should only be added if it benefits the game enough to justify the resources. Determining whether it does or does not isn't my job. You are saying that adding this will bring in more lgbt subscribers and cartel market spenders. If their data shows that adding this content will garner enough lgbt subscribers and cartel market spenders to justify the resources, I don't care if they add it.
Hi.

Wittand's Avatar


Wittand
11.29.2013 , 02:51 PM | #2792
SGRAs, if properly planned, are not expensive.
The necessary coding can happen simultaneously with other companion related coding, like the rather useful function of a possible companion/story reset to allow replays of a companion story arc and making the addition of new companion content worthwhile.
Voice work is a minor budget point, since the recording of the few new lines can also happen the recording of other voice work, which is necessary unless companions will be completely silent on all future planets and/or story lines.

The biggest issue is the complete silence right now. If we got an update on what stage the implementation of proper SGRAs (if writing, coding, voice work is done/still in work) the situation would be vastly improved.

As it is now, I re-subbed for two months recently but every time I try to get into the game the lack of SGRAs and the total silence put me so off that I stop the game after five minutes, so I guess I will be gone once my time runs out again, because hanging around here all the time would just make me bitter.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
11.29.2013 , 03:51 PM | #2793
Quote: Originally Posted by timidobserver View Post
I said it should only be added if it benefits the game enough to justify the resources.
Unless you have any data - hard evidence of truthful data - about the resources it takes to update any particular part of this game then you must understand that your comments seemed - and still seem - to boil down to 'This shouldn't be in because I don't like it.'

You cite that you believe it should go in if it will benefit the game sufficiently - all right, that's fair enough. You also cite that the game is in trouble (though I've yet to see any specific, factual evidence to state exactly and objectively how much 'trouble' it is in; you certainly haven't provided any).

Here's the thing: I know at least a dozen people who would be far more inclined to play - and very likely start a subscription - if SGRAs were a part of the game. I have not done any particular research into how many would or wouldn't; that number is a rough one but it's pulled from actual conversations I've had about the game. Some used to play, some never have. All of them were surprised that SGRAs weren't in it from launch - specifically because it's a Bioware game.

Now, maybe it's partly because I talk to people who tend to be sympathetic to LGBTI issues or are, indeed, themselves part of the LGBTI spectrum, but if I can think of that many without doing a survey I think it's fair enough to extrapolate that putting SGRAs in as an option would benefit the game's health far more than one might suspect (and a great deal more than you seem to be implying).

timidobserver, you have stated you will never support SGRA inclusion. The word 'never' was yours. That means that even if the game were the healthiest in the world you would not support SGRA inclusion. Yet you say you have nothing against it going in if it's a suitable use of the resources that you don't have any data upon.

I must, therefore, come to the conclusion that the reason you don't want SGRAs in the game is because of some form of homophobic ideal (because, truly, nothing else fits). So why are you bothering to come to this thread and say 'Oh, I don't have anything against it going in if the game's healthy enough but I'll never support it going in,' (both of which are concrete statements that you have made) and then getting uppity and morally righteous when people call you out on your stance?
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
11.29.2013 , 04:39 PM | #2794
[QUOTE=timidobserver;6982462]
Quote: Originally Posted by Joushigun View Post

Nothing in what I've written proves your rewrite of my post to be accurate. What is so hard about responding explicitly to what I say instead of rewriting into something that is inflammatory and easier for you to respond to.
Just responding to what I say would make the discussion much more productive.

I never said it doesn't benefit the game. I said it should only be added if it benefits the game enough to justify the resources. Determining whether it does or does not isn't my job. You are saying that adding this will bring in more lgbt subscribers and cartel market spenders. If their data shows that adding this content will garner enough lgbt subscribers and cartel market spenders to justify the resources, I don't care if they add it.
I have been around enough to know what people mean when they say things like "enough to justify" and "benefits". You have not provided one single whiff of evidence to support your statements; however, I should point out that a lot of us- myself included- only bought the game on the promise of SGR's, and a lot of us have not been paying in order to play the game. I've seen this pattern before. You say that it is not your place to determine if this is a benefit and that you do not care if it is added or not- but if that is the case, why are you even commenting? Someone who is apathetic to this discussion would not say anything. Someone who has a vested interest in the topic- either for or against- would say something. Quite often we get people trying to bend their words around so that they do not sound like they are against SGR's even when they are against them by making the exact claims you have.

So, either prove that this is something that is not a priority, or you will continue to to run into people who are quite skeptical about your statements. Prove your point. If you do not wish to prove your point, then why bother continuing to comment?
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

Joushigun's Avatar


Joushigun
11.29.2013 , 04:45 PM | #2795
Quote: Originally Posted by Wittand View Post
As it is now, I re-subbed for two months recently but every time I try to get into the game the lack of SGRAs and the total silence put me so off that I stop the game after five minutes, so I guess I will be gone once my time runs out again, because hanging around here all the time would just make me bitter.
I accidentally resubbed recently. Come January, I'm not sure I'll do that. It'll all depend on SGRA's and/or my decision to purchase the ewok (who is female) so that I can have a female companion from level 10 on a character.
"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time, and this is my wife."- Lady Vastra, Doctor Who and the Snowmen

HaleLightmight's Avatar


HaleLightmight
11.29.2013 , 05:40 PM | #2796
Quote: Originally Posted by drakensang View Post
Ok.

Admittedly, 1998, when 'Fanboys' plays, 'Name me on star wars character who is confirmed in canon to be gay' couldn't have been answered, but thanks to Karen Traviss, in the last decade it could be answered. So the argument has been invalid for some time.

As for feeling uncomfortable with same sex-themes in your favorite game: It is a problem. Some people are emotionally deeply touched by the public display of same-sex-affection, even to a point where they liken exposure to it to 'rape', and get very worked up about something they could easily ignore, and usually do, in cases of public displays of other-sex-affection. One of those once even told me in a discussion that seeing two men kissing causes strong revulsion in him.

What can I say? The freedom to kiss my love is more worth to me than avoiding their discomfort, so I tacitly accept that it may make them uncomfortable. I heard desensitation therapy has pretty good success rates in similar cases, if it becomes unbearable.

Reasons for equal representation in the game have been given in this thread enough. From a RP-perspective, it would be nice if my characters could stop pining. My smuggler is a straight woman and apparently has ample opportunity, my jedi-shadow has this whole discipline thing going, and can - if not happily - live with it. But my sith-inquisitor ........ as catty as this guy is, I think he really needs a man.
clicked on the link DANG IT!!!

HaleLightmight's Avatar


HaleLightmight
11.29.2013 , 05:44 PM | #2797
Do you want to know what i think?
well, i don't care, I'm still telling you
we are we even spending our time talking about this half of the day. it's not like Bioware or anyone else is going to change anything because we sat here and said something about it.
So why waste our time?
It's totally pointless, were talking, but no one is listening.

Palar's Avatar


Palar
11.29.2013 , 05:56 PM | #2798
Quote: Originally Posted by timidobserver View Post
This isn't government benefits or a government run game, therefore equality isn't a right here. This game is in trouble and has been for a while, so they should be tunnel visioning on fixing that. Benefit to the game should be the supreme concern. If Bioware finds that it will benefit the game enough to justify the resources, they should go for it. However, I don't want them wasting time putting it in purely for the sake of equality.
They've already said F2P turned the monetary side around, people got the Ops, WZs and SSSP they were demanding, and bug-fixes have nothing to do with story content.

So unless you'd care to explain what else you mean by "in trouble", the "I don't want" is what's going to stand out in your post.

fabiyun's Avatar


fabiyun
11.29.2013 , 07:29 PM | #2799
Meanwhile, in Star Wars EU, in a galaxy far far away, a Dathomir Witch seems to have had a force connection to these forums and developers:

"What sort of thoughts could a man have about anything, after all? They thought about eating, sleeping, breeding, working, and spending their few leisure hours playing games with abstruse rules that resulted in the winners mocking the losers."

The Last Jedi; Michael Reaves and Maya Kaathryn Bohnhoff

Long live the matriarchy! ^_^
"..the worst kind of DARTH one can dig up!"

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
11.30.2013 , 10:21 AM | #2800
Quote: Originally Posted by Palar View Post
They've already said F2P turned the monetary side around, people got the Ops, WZs and SSSP they were demanding, and bug-fixes have nothing to do with story content.

So unless you'd care to explain what else you mean by "in trouble", the "I don't want" is what's going to stand out in your post.
It does seem rather odd that someone who is (apparently) otherwise ambivalent to the inclusion of content, is so firmly against including it that they would go so far as to say that story writers (who have no programming skills whatsoever) should be involved in debugging.

Methinks he doth protest too much.

Because, whenever these so-called "concerned" individuals waltz in here with their "concern" for the state of the game, they forever accuse us of not caring for the game. They seem to think that, because we would like more story content of better and more inclusive quality, we would deny them their bug fixes, or Operations (of which there are many), or War Zones (of which there are some) or mini-games (on which Bioware has said nothing.) Well, SWTOR has a micro-transaction system now which supports it well - we now have the SSSP, which is default free to subscribers - not something that could have happened on the previous subscription only model. And yet, apparently, Austin is so strapped for cash they must force Mr. Hood to do character modelling and Mr. Boyd to look for errant semi-colons and dropped brackets? That is utterly ludicrous.

No, it's fairly obvious the position of this "concerned" individuals, and why they choose to hide said behind such outlandish ignorance.

Because it worse to be accused of oppression, than it is to actually experience it*.


*The original line is "It's worse to be called a racist, than to be a victim of racism" and comes from the terribly uppity, offended and self-serving cries that come from (generally) white people who get called out on their problematic language or bloody obvious (pun intended) blackface.