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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
09.16.2013 , 01:31 AM | #1911
Quote: Originally Posted by Hudlar View Post
There are a lot of problems with Ashara's story, but I don't think that's one of them. I played a female SI, and I didn't get any dialogue about her not liking women. I think people joke about her hating women because she doesn't have any gifts in the "favorite" or "love" category unless you're romancing her. Since she's unfortunately not a romance option for women, it's very expensive to raise her affection with gifts alone if you're playing a woman. However, I believe it would be just as expensive for a male character who didn't take the romance path. In any case, you don't need to worry about this as much if you actually take her along on missions and get affection that way. Since I pretty much always used either Talos or Khem, I had to go the gift-only route myself.
Ah... see I asked what the heck was up with the crazy gifting (If you romance her she actually likes stuff she doesn't otherwise beyond courting? Seriously she's the only companion that is like that), if it was a bug or what, and I had a couple people tell me that there is some dialogue somewhere in there (if you are actually rich enough to get her affection up without romancing her) where she talks about how she has some issues with other women. I didn't get details cause I don't like her... maybe if I ever make a 3rd inquisitor (Normally I make one male and one female of each class to try both romance/light/dark/AC combinations.... but I made two female inquisitors because I have no interest in Ashara as a romance (she's hot, especially the Collector's Edition Customization, but as a personality I don't like her) I'll bite the bullet and romance her and actually care. Or when I'm rich and decide to waste money on low affection gifts for her when I could be spending those credits on high level mods and such.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

Hudlar's Avatar


Hudlar
09.16.2013 , 08:21 AM | #1912
Quote: Originally Posted by AbsolutGrndZero View Post
Ah... see I asked what the heck was up with the crazy gifting (If you romance her she actually likes stuff she doesn't otherwise beyond courting? Seriously she's the only companion that is like that), if it was a bug or what, and I had a couple people tell me that there is some dialogue somewhere in there (if you are actually rich enough to get her affection up without romancing her) where she talks about how she has some issues with other women.
I may be forgetting something (and if I am I hope someone will jump in with details), but I don't remember any conversations about not liking women or having trouble with women. According to Dulfy's site, there are quite a few companions who change gift preferences in weird ways when they're romanced (Andronikos suddenly likes luxury, military gear, and underworld goods better; Corso likes Republic memorabilia and trophies better, etc.) However, as far as I can tell, Ashara is the only companion who doesn't have even one favorite-level gift unless you're on the romance path. It's possible that this is supposed to mean something (maybe that she's hard to win over unless she's in love with you). However, I find the whole gift mechanic so silly that I treat it as a pure OOC game element that stands in for the time you're presumably spending with companions offscreen. Gifts made some sense in Dragon Age, where companions liked you better after you gave them one or two items with special meaning to them, but giving someone the same item over and over to gain affection just seems ridiculous to me.

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
09.16.2013 , 10:02 AM | #1913
Quote: Originally Posted by AbsolutGrndZero View Post
Seriously she's the only companion that is like that), if it was a bug or what, and I had a couple people tell me that there is some dialogue somewhere in there (if you are actually rich enough to get her affection up without romancing her) where she talks about how she has some issues with other women.
I've done her whole dialog path with a female Inquisitor and never saw any hint of this.

AbsolutGrndZero's Avatar


AbsolutGrndZero
09.16.2013 , 09:21 PM | #1914
Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
I've done her whole dialog path with a female Inquisitor and never saw any hint of this.
Ah cool then, guess the person that told me that was just reading too much into the gift thing and seeing things that aren't there in the dialogue. Thanks for letting me know, might actually go now to Belsavis and use a guide to "farm" affection on the dailies with her.
The Babylon Legacy
Harbinger
Racquel, Stancerry, Jennica, Porcelain

MSpectre's Avatar


MSpectre
09.16.2013 , 11:09 PM | #1915
Not that you're reading this EA but if by some miracle in hell you are...

Make Jaesa bisexual and allow the conversation sequence to happen even after completing her dialogue arch and I'll throw a money at you. In all seriousness, throw money at you.

Highborne's Avatar


Highborne
09.17.2013 , 06:28 PM | #1916
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
Actually, the Inquisitor storyline thus far has been wonderful and I have no objections to it so far, apart from abominable presentation with Ashara that turned me off of it for an indefinite time period. There does tend to be a certain amount of personality inconsistency with light side, but it's not bad enough for it to make me leave in and of itself. No, what's depressing is the planetary storylines on the Imperial side. It started with slaughtering numerous revolting slaves on Dromund Kaas, then the entire plot of Balmorra was crushing native rebellions.
Well, to be fair, Balmorra *had* been assigned to the Empire by the Treaty of Coruscant. And as LS Empire player, you can sway the methods they use to not be so terrible as they would otherwise be and generally encourage leniency toward the noncombatant civilians.

Quote:
Nar Shaddaa and Tatooine has your enemies be mostly as bad as you were, so that helped, but then Alderaan went into backing a clearly unpleasant noble house to power
What's so unpleasant about House Thul? Speaking as someone who's run through all Republic and Imperial storylines on Alderaan, there's not a whole lot of difference between them and Organa, not as people. Further, as a LS Empire character, you can have a huge influence on how Duke Thul treats his enemies and his people, and for the better too. I would say that Alderaan is a classic example of the dichotomy between Lightside Empire and Darkside Empire.

Quote:
and then Taris put it up to eleven by deliberately attacking a civilian-colonized world for no reason other than to make the Republic look bad, by destroying hope, killing civilians and poisoning the planet more. It's... bleh.
And Gravus explains why it has to be done: Taris is positioned such that it's an ideal forward base for strikes against the Empire. In point of fact, the Taris bonus series involves you
Spoiler


(Also, an LS Empire player can spare civilians, instead sending them running to the rest of the Republic.)

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
09.17.2013 , 07:21 PM | #1917
Quote:
Well, to be fair, Balmorra *had* been assigned to the Empire by the Treaty of Coruscant. And as LS Empire player, you can sway the methods they use to not be so terrible as they would otherwise be and generally encourage leniency toward the noncombatant civilians.
Assigned... because the Empire conquered it in its earlier unprovoked attack and the Republic was unable to retake it at the time. I'm reasonably sure the population is quite happy when the Republic liberates it later on.

Quote:
What's so unpleasant about House Thul? Speaking as someone who's run through all Republic and Imperial storylines on Alderaan, there's not a whole lot of difference between them and Organa, not as people. Further, as a LS Empire character, you can have a huge influence on how Duke Thul treats his enemies and his people, and for the better too. I would say that Alderaan is a classic example of the dichotomy between Lightside Empire and Darkside Empire.
The duke isn't so bad, but there are no fewer than three missions I found to cover up Thul's apparently long list of atrocities. One involving stealing a holocron, a bonus mission inside Alte's library to delete files on Thul (Inquisitor-only), and one dealing with the rogue Rist assassins giving information to Ulgo.

Quote:
And Gravus explains why it has to be done: Taris is positioned such that it's an ideal forward base for strikes against the Empire. In point of fact, the Taris bonus series involves you
But why not simply conquer Taris and build it up as an Imperial world? Why do you have to go out of your way to wreck the planet? I also admit I dislike Taris because it seems way too short for its level range and I'm still at level bloody 34...

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.17.2013 , 09:20 PM | #1918
Quote: Originally Posted by Xilizhra View Post
But why not simply conquer Taris and build it up as an Imperial world? Why do you have to go out of your way to wreck the planet? I also admit I dislike Taris because it seems way too short for its level range and I'm still at level bloody 34...
Because it's ridiculously, prohibitively expensive. Taris reconstruction cost the Republic gobs and gobs of cash and meant an unlimited military commitment because of the nature of the, ah, local wildlife. The Empire is smaller and weaker and less cash-flush than the Republic, and therefore has a proportionately smaller ability or desire to colonize it. If the Empire were to drive the Republic off the planet, but leave the colony infrastructure and military facilities intact, anybody - Republic, pirates, rogue Imperial warlords - could just roll in there and take over once the Imps leave. And then the Imps would have the exact same security problem they had before. The solution is to not only eliminate the colony and the military base, but to destroy the infrastructure, so that the costs of a foreign power occupying Taris remain high.

That's the logical reason. (I expound on it at significant length in the fanfic that I swear I'm still writing. Hint. ) The illogical reason is the one brought up by a lot of Imps and Sith during the actual Taris quests themselves: a bizarre, obstinate "finish what we started" mentality that makes zero sense because Malak's Empire and Vitiate's Empire are two completely different things. Well, that combined with the usual Sith sadistic insistence on causing destruction purely for the evulz.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil

Xilizhra's Avatar


Xilizhra
09.17.2013 , 09:24 PM | #1919
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
Because it's ridiculously, prohibitively expensive. Taris reconstruction cost the Republic gobs and gobs of cash and meant an unlimited military commitment because of the nature of the, ah, local wildlife. The Empire is smaller and weaker and less cash-flush than the Republic, and therefore has a proportionately smaller ability or desire to colonize it. If the Empire were to drive the Republic off the planet, but leave the colony infrastructure and military facilities intact, anybody - Republic, pirates, rogue Imperial warlords - could just roll in there and take over once the Imps leave. And then the Imps would have the exact same security problem they had before. The solution is to not only eliminate the colony and the military base, but to destroy the infrastructure, so that the costs of a foreign power occupying Taris remain high.

That's the logical reason. (I expound on it at significant length in the fanfic that I swear I'm still writing. Hint. ) The illogical reason is the one brought up by a lot of Imps and Sith during the actual Taris quests themselves: a bizarre, obstinate "finish what we started" mentality that makes zero sense because Malak's Empire and Vitiate's Empire are two completely different things. Well, that combined with the usual Sith sadistic insistence on causing destruction purely for the evulz.
That probably would have helped my mentality during Taris a fair bit, had that been the stated reason...

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.17.2013 , 10:09 PM | #1920
Most of the things that NPCs and questgivers say about anything the Empire is doing in-game are idiotic and embarrassing. (And yet, the Empire has an absurd number of fanboys who eat it all up, believe it unconditionally, and were shocked and outraged at the beginning of Rise of the Hutt Cartel. But I digress.) Sometimes, you can come up with alternate explanations that work off of in-game knowledge; I personally think that a lot of this was sort of a 'read between the lines' kind of thing that the writers put there on purpose. Taris is an example of that.

But other times, it's impossible to explain them in any other way that makes sense. Like the Belsavis Bonus Series, which is largely about acquiring technical data so that the Imperial Guard can build an entire planet as a replica prison, only better. Bear in mind that this is happening:

a) during the middle of a war
b) during the middle of a war that the Empire is losing
c) during the middle of a war that the Empire is losing because it is outnumbered and being outproduced by Republic industry
d) during the middle of a war that the Empire is losing because in addition to all that, it's wasting its scarce resources on lunatic vanity projects, boondoggles, militarily absurd offensives, and civil wars
e) during the middle of a war in which the Empire's stated policy is apparently to take no prisoners in the first place, judging by the atrocities that its soldiers regularly commit.

All that ends up to a story that makes no sense at all. Now, this isn't all that big a deal, because the main thing about doing the Belsavis Bonus Series is the fact that it yields gobs and gobs of credits, and the missions in it are a fairly disparate bunch that mostly don't have anything to do with the framing quest. You're not smacked in the head with this two-by-four of Imperial stupidity every day you run the quests. (The Bonus Series quests are almost all endgame dailies, but the framing quest can only be done once.) But it does show how bizarre a lot of Imp stuff is, and how detached from the in-game reality a lot of them seem to be.

Now, that might just be good storytelling too: that the Imps really are that irrational and silly. The Sith Empire of the games is transparently an Expy of Nazi Germany, and these boondoggles would dovetail nicely with Hitlerite programs such as Speer's reconstruction of Berlin, the Maus superheavy tank, the Heinkel He 162 "Salamander" Volksjäger, Kraft durch Freude, and the entire Deutsche Arbeitsfront. If so, though, there's a subtlety of storytelling there that's lost on the majority of the playerbase. Combined with the fact that sometimes, these projects actually pay off (examples: Jedi Knight Chapter I, Sith Inquisitor Chapter III, possibly the entirety of Imperial Chapter IV), that ostensible subtlety might not be there at all.

But hey, I choose to believe it exists, which is why I also choose to believe that LS Jaesa's meant to be viewed as a lesbian who'd be totally into the Wrath if not for that Jedi chastity. (And that turning her to the dark side instead corrupts her into the weird, vaguely omnisexual animal we all know and love.) I also ship Korra and Asami, though, so I'm more than a little crazy.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"
Fanfic: Beyond Good and Evil