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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
07.13.2013 , 04:41 PM | #1611
Quote: Originally Posted by Birthofthecool View Post
I know it's an old post, but I don't check this thread that often and I wanted to reply to it.

I'm sorry, but your comment makes about zero sense.

It's his fictional Universe, yes. I just don't see how this would make not having LGBT content in any way less wrong.
That's like saying a bar owner who doesn't allow anything but heterosexual, anglo-saxon males in his establishment would be right.
Or in other words, Lucas would have had the right to present the dictatorial and racist Empire as the 'good guys' in his Universe, yet wouldn't (hopefully) a lot of people think it's wrong to do that and rightly so?

Just because something is legally right, doesn't mean it is ethically right in any way.
By not including gays and lesbians in your fictional Universe you are marginalizing and excluding them and whether it's your right or not, it is indeed still wrong.

I'm not sure I'm making myself clear, as English is not my native tongue.

Let me give you another example. Female characters are vastly underrepresented in LOTR (I'm talking books here, not movies). Naturally, it was Tolkien's right and his decision how he represented women in his books, but still from how we see society today, his approach to female characters feels wrong and outdated.
(I'm pretty sure, if Tolkien wrote his books today, we would have more characters like Galadriel and Eowyn and less like Arwen, but that's beside the point).

Another example would be the xenophobic and racist content in the work of H.P. Lovecraft.
Lovecraft had every right to write what he wanted, but he was still terribly, terribly wrong in doing it.
Whether you actually depict someone as vile and worthless or you just exclude him from your work , both means using your power as a writer and creator to do wrong.
There would be nothing unethical about it.

If someone created a fictional universe and said "There's no such thing as alcohol or drugs, not even an equivalent to them, in this universe." Would you be upset? Not likely. Would you call it unethical, because alcohol does exist in RL. No.

You assume, and wrongly, that the rules of a fictional universe, have to match up to your ethical standards/real life beliefs/real life truths. They do not, because it goes back to being fiction.

Now, obviously, GL never said there wasn't SGR in Star Wars, and there are a few examples of it in non-movie canon (including now with Makeb). But to tell any writer what the rules to their fictional universe are, is the unethical thing to do. You don't like someone's fictional creation, don't read it/watch it or make your own.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

SwoopingLion's Avatar


SwoopingLion
07.14.2013 , 08:32 AM | #1612
Quote: Originally Posted by Birthofthecool View Post
Let me give you another example. Female characters are vastly underrepresented in LOTR (I'm talking books here, not movies). Naturally, it was Tolkien's right and his decision how he represented women in his books, but still from how we see society today, his approach to female characters feels wrong and outdated.
(I'm pretty sure, if Tolkien wrote his books today, we would have more characters like Galadriel and Eowyn and less like Arwen, but that's beside the point).

Off-topic, I know, but further to SithKoriandr's post I have to disagree with this too.

Tolkien's works are set in an early Mediaeval European analogue. In those times women were represented almost exactly in real life as they are in his works. Take RL legends and myths of the time and you'll see a similar lack of prominent women. Further, take actual real life history, women simply were that badly represented in that time. To give his works the sort of real life mythology feel he wanted, he had to follow suit. If he had a nice, round 50/50 power split between men and women (even if he only did this for Man, let alone the other races) it would feel out of place and forcibly "politically correct". It would spoil the setting. It speaks volumes that he depicts his most noble and "advanced" race as the race who are most ready to appoint based on ability and knowledge rather than gender (i.e. Galadriel holding more sway than Celeborn, Luthien being the "star" of her adventures, more so than Beren etc).

The point is, what we think to be "right" today by some arbitrary moral compass should hold no sway over what any author or creator puts within his or her works. Just as Tolkien's setting was responsible for his accurate under-representation of women, GL could readily say that in the galaxy far, far away homosexuality had yet to evolve into the human way of life, and was a trait not at all found in aliens. If he said that, his own views IRL could be called into question (i.e. it's not ok to be homophobic irl) but his word would have to be law within his own creation. Right or wrong doesn't come into it.
An elegant weapon, for a more civilized age.

wainot-keel's Avatar


wainot-keel
07.18.2013 , 08:11 AM | #1613
Quote: Originally Posted by Pietrastor View Post
There are some same-sex flirts during Bounty Hunter even contracts. Nothing major, just little one-liners but still nice.

Video: http://youtu.be/GKi-CFXah1Q?t=11m14s
rofl... guy wonders if that's a bug or something

Schanez's Avatar


Schanez
07.18.2013 , 09:52 AM | #1614
I gues the only reason they won't add same gender romances is the PEGI 18+ which wil be applied then. Bioware is famous for it's attitude towards same gender romances (look Mass Effect series or Dragon Age). Both of those games are 18+ thou. I would love to see the option in Old Republic, but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon.

As for the thread, I didn't even tried reading through the first part and all those pages here, so I am a little out of discusion. Sorry for that Just giving my opinion.

Raiellyn's Avatar


Raiellyn
07.18.2013 , 10:24 AM | #1615
Quote: Originally Posted by Schanez View Post
I gues the only reason they won't add same gender romances is the PEGI 18+ which wil be applied then. Bioware is famous for it's attitude towards same gender romances (look Mass Effect series or Dragon Age). Both of those games are 18+ thou. I would love to see the option in Old Republic, but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon.

As for the thread, I didn't even tried reading through the first part and all those pages here, so I am a little out of discusion. Sorry for that Just giving my opinion.
I can't remember if it was PEGI or ESRB, but I remember in the earlier days of this thread back near the Guild Summit, people got antsy while waiting and contacted the organization for clarification on this type of thing. The response was that they do not differentiate as a policy; sexual content is sexual content, with neither warranting a higher rating based purely on the genders of those involved. Now, the context could easily change the rating, like the difference between a kissing animation and a full-out romance scene with nudity.
"It's a bad day for heroes."

Duvack's Avatar


Duvack
07.18.2013 , 11:28 AM | #1616
JE, a BioWare game, had same-sex romance plots all weaved through-out it. One reason I was hoping SWTOR would also. There are a few 'hints' at it, my example is the relationship between Watcher 2 and the IA(female). It seems they were kind of leaning that maybe they could do it but just won't implement it. Who knows what the future holds for SGR but it may take a major overhaul of the game and one we will probably not likely see any time soon.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
07.18.2013 , 11:45 AM | #1617
Quote: Originally Posted by Schanez View Post
I gues the only reason they won't add same gender romances is the PEGI 18+ which wil be applied then.
It has been stated numerous times, to the extent that one person wrote to ESRB and asked, that same-sex relationships garner no higher rating than opposite-sex relationships.

Whoever told you they do is either incorrectly informed or flat-out lying.

frankiejo's Avatar


frankiejo
07.18.2013 , 12:49 PM | #1618
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Taking it here from the old thread....



And they would implement it into a finished game how? Because by the time they would evaluate that, people already own the game. And male/male option was implemented into ME resulting from player feedback and, I guess, from them evaluating how many people played modded Sheps in order to be able to romance the same gender. Why else would they have added it for the last part of the series?
I'm not going to read or even contribute further to this thread. I'm quoting this from the first page.


I have only four words: Downloadable Content - Fire Island
Bergeron Colony
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markcymru's Avatar


markcymru
07.18.2013 , 05:47 PM | #1619
Quote: Originally Posted by frankiejo View Post
I'm not going to read or even contribute further to this thread.
So... why bother posting then? Especially since your next comment is incomprehensible.
Quote: Originally Posted by frankiejo View Post
I have only four words: Downloadable Content - Fire Island
Does anyone have a clue what this means? It seems like it should mean something, but I DK what.
“The comments on any article about feminism justify feminism.” — Lewis's Law

Zandilar's Avatar


Zandilar
07.18.2013 , 06:39 PM | #1620
Quote: Originally Posted by Schanez View Post
I gues the only reason they won't add same gender romances is the PEGI 18+ which wil be applied then. Bioware is famous for it's attitude towards same gender romances (look Mass Effect series or Dragon Age). Both of those games are 18+ thou. I would love to see the option in Old Republic, but I don't think it's going to happen any time soon.

As for the thread, I didn't even tried reading through the first part and all those pages here, so I am a little out of discusion. Sorry for that Just giving my opinion.
Um. You do know SGR flirts are in Makeb, yes? And the game's rating didn't change.

What a silly thing to say.
Zandilar, an Australian, IN SPAAAAAAAACCCCEEEEE!!
Too many characters, most of them Chiss.