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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
02.07.2013 , 12:04 AM | #141
Okay, maybe we can settle down. Lots of people have suggested lots of things over the past years this has been an issue. That's greatly appreciated and certainly potentially constructive but it doesn't exactly make you unique, SithKoriandr, and plenty of people who've made suggestions have been of variable support to this matter. None of the posters here have the capacity to stop others from posting - only the mods can do that - so perhaps for the sake of some peace we can all just make an effort to see everyone's point of view.

For example yes, it is true that boycotting works in some instances and yes, the numbers would be a curious thing to see. But it would also quash any attempt to keep an LGBT voice on this matter on the forums. So, while interesting, it is perhaps understandable that someone perceiving a suggestion of boycotting as a 'shut up or leave' statement (a very large number of which we've been attacked with; this is not a small issue) and taking it as such. After all it'd be interesting but given BW:A's history of not communicating it probably wouldn't do anything except crush the number of people vocally supporting this matter. If anything I'd say more support and more voices would be better.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
02.07.2013 , 12:44 AM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Okay, maybe we can settle down. Lots of people have suggested lots of things over the past years this has been an issue. That's greatly appreciated and certainly potentially constructive but it doesn't exactly make you unique, SithKoriandr, and plenty of people who've made suggestions have been of variable support to this matter. None of the posters here have the capacity to stop others from posting - only the mods can do that - so perhaps for the sake of some peace we can all just make an effort to see everyone's point of view.

For example yes, it is true that boycotting works in some instances and yes, the numbers would be a curious thing to see. But it would also quash any attempt to keep an LGBT voice on this matter on the forums. So, while interesting, it is perhaps understandable that someone perceiving a suggestion of boycotting as a 'shut up or leave' statement (a very large number of which we've been attacked with; this is not a small issue) and taking it as such. After all it'd be interesting but given BW:A's history of not communicating it probably wouldn't do anything except crush the number of people vocally supporting this matter. If anything I'd say more support and more voices would be better.
Never thought it made me unique. But I don't recall seeing suggestions from some of the posters who go about calling out "a concerned troll" or "a troll" when I've said I want it in and offered up suggestions for different ways it can be implemented past "just make it so all original companion stories can be redone" Everything I've suggested is ways to put it in as additional new content.

My newest suggestion was on the thinking of, maybe the old companions aren't SGRable storyline wise, so why not go with the companions that can't be romanced yet. Admittedly, that was more M/M options than F/F, but that's more of a lack of F/F options. I did quite like the SI suggestion I made, but then I never did care for Khem as much as others.

As for the boycott suggestion being a "shut up or leave", eh, never thought of it that way. More of a lets see how many are actually in the "cant play without SGR" or "put it in or we'll leave" crowd. If it's as big as some seem to make it out to be, it'd be interresting to see if I was infact wrong on the thought of "most players dont care one way or the other"

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
02.07.2013 , 05:42 AM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Okay, maybe we can settle down. Lots of people have suggested lots of things over the past years this has been an issue. That's greatly appreciated and certainly potentially constructive but it doesn't exactly make you unique, SithKoriandr, and plenty of people who've made suggestions have been of variable support to this matter. None of the posters here have the capacity to stop others from posting - only the mods can do that - so perhaps for the sake of some peace we can all just make an effort to see everyone's point of view.
Also, all this is off-topic anyway. Instead of debating the topic, we're always ending up talking about certain people and I don't assume that's interesting for anyone outside of this thread to read. It isn't for me, certainly, but I'm not all innocent when it comes to this, I know.

I'd suggest we commit ourselve to staying on topic and ignoring posts (or posters) that move us off-topic. Maybe that helps us getting a fluid conversation going again.

So, if we're making suggestions (although I consider the suggestion forum to be the best place for this and I've already contributed there, see sig), my suggestion would be to make every companion that's already romanceable available to the other gender. And I don't mean by gender switch turned off, but through story.

I know it's the most work-intensive suggestion of them all, but it's the only one, at the end of the day, I consider fair. And it's the maximum choice option, which is always good.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
02.07.2013 , 06:06 AM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
So, if we're making suggestions (although I consider the suggestion forum to be the best place for this and I've already contributed there, see sig), my suggestion would be to make every companion that's already romanceable available to the other gender. And I don't mean by gender switch turned off, but through story.

I know it's the most work-intensive suggestion of them all, but it's the only one, at the end of the day, I consider fair. And it's the maximum choice option, which is always good.
It would be nice to see the one-night-stand options, like Pierce, given a more fleshed out and in-depth romance. Also, for padawans like Ashara and Jaesa, if they do make them available for SGRA's, it should be done in such as way as not to present lesbianism as the "corruption" of something otherwise "pure", because I can imagine that being all too easy an option for the writers. "Oh? Dark side Sith lesbian lady wants some action with her padawan-come-apprentice? Ok, let's go with the manipulative, lesbians=darkness approach. That's not offensive AT ALL."

What would also be interesting and preferable, should they decide to make this content available only post-50 (which isn't something I necessarily find agreeable) is that the romance companions discuss some of your character's past actions/motivations in some of the romance scenes, as reasons for (or against (as in spite of)) the relationship. Not in a total "I wasn't gay before I met you" (but of course, all current romances in this game are hero-sexual, would Quinn really want to marry that many alien women, regardless of their status as a Lord?) but more of a "you're an interesting person, here's why" and also, largely, to get around the idea that same-sex romances and relationships are only about the 'fade to black' - a view prevalent among those who argue against this content.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
02.07.2013 , 09:23 AM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
It would be nice to see the one-night-stand options, like Pierce, given a more fleshed out and in-depth romance. Also, for padawans like Ashara and Jaesa, if they do make them available for SGRA's, it should be done in such as way as not to present lesbianism as the "corruption" of something otherwise "pure", because I can imagine that being all too easy an option for the writers. "Oh? Dark side Sith lesbian lady wants some action with her padawan-come-apprentice? Ok, let's go with the manipulative, lesbians=darkness approach. That's not offensive AT ALL."

What would also be interesting and preferable, should they decide to make this content available only post-50 (which isn't something I necessarily find agreeable) is that the romance companions discuss some of your character's past actions/motivations in some of the romance scenes, as reasons for (or against (as in spite of)) the relationship. Not in a total "I wasn't gay before I met you" (but of course, all current romances in this game are hero-sexual, would Quinn really want to marry that many alien women, regardless of their status as a Lord?) but more of a "you're an interesting person, here's why" and also, largely, to get around the idea that same-sex romances and relationships are only about the 'fade to black' - a view prevalent among those who argue against this content.
I wouldn't think it has to be post 50 storyline. Just likely post Chapter 2. I don't recall any companion having a storyline mission brought up by hitting 10k affection. Now admittedly, I haven't gotten that high with every companion. But most of them seem to get the last storyline mission pop up, what, around 7-8k affection?

So, tacking SGR romance options with companions to the end of their storylines still puts in SGR, and wouldn't be level 50, unless it took you that long to max their affection.

Also, if they want to say lesbianism with Jaesa equals darkside, let them. They already have OGR with Jaesa equals darkside. If anyone gets offended by whatever they write, I just hope they can give the simple reply of "Get over yourself" something they probably should have been doing already, and leave it at that.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
02.07.2013 , 09:36 AM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Also, all this is off-topic anyway. Instead of debating the topic, we're always ending up talking about certain people and I don't assume that's interesting for anyone outside of this thread to read. It isn't for me, certainly, but I'm not all innocent when it comes to this, I know.

I'd suggest we commit ourselve to staying on topic and ignoring posts (or posters) that move us off-topic. Maybe that helps us getting a fluid conversation going again.

So, if we're making suggestions (although I consider the suggestion forum to be the best place for this and I've already contributed there, see sig), my suggestion would be to make every companion that's already romanceable available to the other gender. And I don't mean by gender switch turned off, but through story.

I know it's the most work-intensive suggestion of them all, but it's the only one, at the end of the day, I consider fair. And it's the maximum choice option, which is always good.
I was under the impression that this thread was the suggestion thread for it. No idea why it's not in Suggestion Forum or even started there. Unless this thread is about just saying "Yes I want it." but then wouldn't thread die because isn't bumping a thread just to bump it against forum rules (I don't actually know, but I know it's a common rule on game forums).

Suggestions none of us seem to have made (and I admit I could have missed these suggestions) is suggesting actual storylines for the companions. Yes, most posters in this thread want SGR, but what are we looking for?

Example! Male SI and Andronikus can get into a fight with each other! Fists start flying! They're rolling around on the ground, they both get excited, their lips accidently touch, they stare at each other as they realize they like it and then the scene fades to black and the next thing you know you're in the SI's room on the ship (good time to go the shirtless route with the scene) and that can kick off the romance!

stuffystuffs's Avatar


stuffystuffs
02.07.2013 , 10:05 AM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
So, if we're making suggestions (although I consider the suggestion forum to be the best place for this and I've already contributed there, see sig), my suggestion would be to make every companion that's already romanceable available to the other gender. And I don't mean by gender switch turned off, but through story.
I like this idea

Everyone here has their 'favorites' as far as current romanceable companions go and it would be nice to get to pick which ones you want to do (or not...there are plenty of female companions I have no interest in romancing). Plus, it would avoid the issue of some classes not having an SGRA for a given gender. Right now, each class has at least one male/female OGRA option so I don't see why the same can't happen for SGRA.

I do agree that I would ultimately prefer this done via additional story content vs. tweaking existing dialog. Though, the we'd have to wait for a major story (and companion story) update I'd assume. I can wait and use headcanon in the meantime but I'm hoping it (along with more story content in general) won't take years.

Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
It would be nice to see the one-night-stand options, like Pierce, given a more fleshed out and in-depth romance. Also, for padawans like Ashara and Jaesa, if they do make them available for SGRA's, it should be done in such as way as not to present lesbianism as the "corruption" of something otherwise "pure", because I can imagine that being all too easy an option for the writers. "Oh? Dark side Sith lesbian lady wants some action with her padawan-come-apprentice? Ok, let's go with the manipulative, lesbians=darkness approach. That's not offensive AT ALL."
Well, with Ashara

Spoiler


With Jaesa

Spoiler
Node guarder

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
02.07.2013 , 06:35 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
What would also be interesting and preferable, should they decide to make this content available only post-50 (which isn't something I necessarily find agreeable) is that the romance companions discuss some of your character's past actions/motivations in some of the romance scenes, as reasons for (or against (as in spite of)) the relationship. Not in a total "I wasn't gay before I met you" (but of course, all current romances in this game are hero-sexual, would Quinn really want to marry that many alien women, regardless of their status as a Lord?) but more of a "you're an interesting person, here's why" and also, largely, to get around the idea that same-sex romances and relationships are only about the 'fade to black' - a view prevalent among those who argue against this content.
That's really what made Bioware games stand out to me in the past. Their characters were always multidimensional, and they had room to evolve. Look at Zhevran for instance. In the beginning, he's like "Yeah, whatever, let's go" when you flirt with him, he's not used to anything else, but the further the story progresses, he's getting more and more dedicated to the Warden. Or Fenris and Hawke, different approach, but great too: You can friend-romance Fenris or fiend-romance him, and he reacts differently, depending on your choices. He evolves too, from distrusting Hawke to eventually trusting him. I love that. That's what makes chars interesting, having choices and character development. I'd just wish they'd be able to put an inkling of that into SWTOR. They do need to speed up the story implementation process for that matter though, definitely.

Quote: Originally Posted by stuffystuffs View Post
I like this idea
Everyone here has their 'favorites' as far as current romanceable companions go and it would be nice to get to pick which ones you want to do (or not...there are plenty of female companions I have no interest in romancing). Plus, it would avoid the issue of some classes not having an SGRA for a given gender. Right now, each class has at least one male/female OGRA option so I don't see why the same can't happen for SGRA.
I do agree that I would ultimately prefer this done via additional story content vs. tweaking existing dialog. Though, the we'd have to wait for a major story (and companion story) update I'd assume. I can wait and use headcanon in the meantime but I'm hoping it (along with more story content in general) won't take years.
Absolutely. Fully agree. Like, for the smuggler for instance, it would make total sense if Corso became available for SGR 50+. He's young and foolish and his relationship with my Captain grows closer and closer. I wouldn't really mind so much if he became available for SGR only 50+, if eventually at least some companions get made SGR compatible from the beginning. And preferably all of them at one point in time, for maximum choice, as mentioned. I agree, there are companions I wouldn't romance, even if available. But to give us the choice to decide, that's definitely what devs should strive for, imo.

Anglvamp's Avatar


Anglvamp
02.08.2013 , 12:36 AM | #149
I'd be ok with some of the romances only available post 50 because you get some of the companions later anyway. Take for instance jaesa, I'd love to be able to romance her now that I've hit 50 simply because it took that long to get to know her.

Gonna remain hopeful that we get more stuff down the road.

^.^
NO one said SGR content should be at the top of the priority list, but eventually you have to get to the bottom of the list

Chaloss's Avatar


Chaloss
02.09.2013 , 06:18 AM | #150
Concerning Sith Jedi padawans:

With DS Jaesa (LS would be no go) I would have her mention it to you casually that she thinking about sleeping with another woman and then you can go from that. It easily fits in my opinion as DS Jaesa is all about experiencing all the emotions. Nothing strange there I think.

Ashara is more tricky. I am not sure how fitting to Star Wars lore is, but this is what I have thought on the subject.
I would give her backround of Jedi teachings (as whole or simply specific to the masters she had) such thing to be totally unthinkable opposed to heavily regulated (as you cant have child from such relations). Due to that she tries to fight the emotions she has towards the female SI, would explain pathetic gift gains reasonably well. I would also put the romance threshold very high, even 10k...but I have feeling majority of players would find it inexcusably short romance.