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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.23.2013 , 05:36 PM | #1401
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
No, sorry. I don't know a single person who's pro-SGRA who's ever said they ONLY want to play SGR content. Everyone I've spoken to on the matter wants to play SGR romance content (many, like myself, also want to play OGRA content) and also, you know, the rest of the game. It's not the same attitude at all. And in any case that's not even the point I was making. I'll repeat myself.

What I was saying was that it's selfish to threaten to leave the game because someone else is getting content updates in a form of content you don't play. Here, I'll even give you an example.

I don't play PvP at all. I accidentally ran into an enemy territory today and backpedalled well before the game could PvP flag me. I have no interest in it at all. I find no fun in it, I don't bother doing it, I avoid it whenever I can. I absolutely refuse to play games that enforce PvP because I won't be pushed into it; I don't even play competitive RTS games like Starcraft 2, I'll only play cooperative games or the single-player campaign. I truly can't express the depth of my disinterest in PvP. Heck, I don't even like competing for crafting resources and quest mobs.

But I don't go into PvP threads demanding that no time or resources be spent on developing it. I don't call it insignificant; I don't even consider it insignificant because lots of people do indeed enjoy it. I don't insult people who do it. I don't think less of PvPers. I certainly wouldn't block the development of PvP in the game with the single exception that I would indeed leave in a heartbeat if they enforced PvP. But even then I wouldn't try and take anyone with me when I left; I'd do so quietly and without fuss.

Why? Because I'm not so small-minded and petty that I think the whole game needs to be catered to my tastes alone. Do I want SGRAs in the game? Yes I do. Do I think that they should retool the original content? Yes I do. Does that mean I ONLY want to play SGRA content? No, it does not. Honestly I'd be happy if they did more work on PvP because it'd make the PvPers happier (presumably). I have no problem with them getting what they want. That's totally cool with me. It's content I'll never ever see and still I'm in favour of them working on and improving it.

So no, sorry, we'll have to disagree. There's a massive difference between saying 'I want this in because that's where my interests lie' and 'If those people get what they want then I'm leaving.' The latter is tremendously selfish and to boil all MMO players down to the same motivations is a gross oversimplification.
Not what I meant. More like "If you don't add this content, I'm leaving" which, yes, people have made that comment on every bit of content, whether it be PvE, PvP, storylines, SGR, ect ect.

It's probably also one of the reasons SGR is low on the to do list. I'd say most people can play the romance storylines as they're offered and not go "Well I'm /this/ in real life, so if my gaming experience doesn't reflect that in my character's life, I'm totally offended and have to quit, because I just can't imagine that my character is different than me."

While the rest of players realize, there's so many things the character does that they the player wouldn't do, even with the option system, as it's a limited option system.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
05.23.2013 , 05:39 PM | #1402
That's actually something that happened to me. I was playing and I'm not into the romance, but I realized "I wouldn't get into this relationship, but under these circumstances this character totally would."

And then there it all went. It was like watching a movie, an enjoyable movie, and I could keep playing, because that character wasn't me.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.23.2013 , 05:39 PM | #1403
Quote: Originally Posted by Bytemite View Post
Agreed. Not really that fair to put people through 1-50 content with them hoping for some outcome, then implement the stuff they want then say lol nope gotta reroll to see it.

The boards would turn into an inferno.
Why it's best to put new companion dialogue as 50+ content. Then some of us won't have to reroll. No reason they can't increase the amount of affection needed on companions.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
05.23.2013 , 07:20 PM | #1404
Or, a replay option. That wouldn't involve rerolling either.

But yeah new content good.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
05.23.2013 , 07:37 PM | #1405
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Not what I meant. More like "If you don't add this content, I'm leaving" which, yes, people have made that comment on every bit of content, whether it be PvE, PvP, storylines, SGR, ect ect.
Again, that's not the point because you're using a different sentiment than the one I've now repeatedly stated. 'If you don't add this content I'm leaving' is a statement of self-interest. It doesn't involve the deprivation of a form of content from a different group of people on the basis that you don't want it. 'If you make that content I don't want to play then I'm leaving' is both a statement of self-interest and selfish.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
It's probably also one of the reasons SGR is low on the to do list. I'd say most people can play the romance storylines as they're offered and not go "Well I'm /this/ in real life, so if my gaming experience doesn't reflect that in my character's life, I'm totally offended and have to quit, because I just can't imagine that my character is different than me."

While the rest of players realize, there's so many things the character does that they the player wouldn't do, even with the option system, as it's a limited option system.
<sighs>

SK, look. The majority of people who are pro-SGRA know quite well it's a limited-option system. The majority of people who are pro-SGRA are also entirely capable of separating their in-game experiences from their real-world sexuality. You're boiling everything down to oversimplicity again and the quote in your signature says all you need to say on your opinion of what you're boiling this down to.

The vast majority of us aren't here because we're 'totally offended and have to quit' because we just can't imagine that our characters are different than us. We're here because we want to see a feature implemented and have every right to ask for it.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
05.23.2013 , 07:55 PM | #1406
Quote: Originally Posted by zzoorrzz View Post
The problem I have is not that you want time and resources invested into this same gender romance thing. The problem is that you want to "retool" the old content. That's waste of time. We all know how slow they are with developing new story content. Lets not make it even slower by coming back again and again to change old content.
Ahem:
Quote: Originally Posted by zzoorrzz View Post
Updating old content on something as insignificant as same gender romances would be great waste of time and resources. I say include it in the new content if you must, but focus on new content, not on recycling old one.
Bold added by me for emphasis. Retooling old content may be a problem for you but it's certainly not the only problem you appear to have with the idea. People don't call things 'insignificant' lightly, nor do they toss about terms like 'if you must' if their position on a matter is neutral.

Besides, retooling old content - heaps of old content, not just adding in SGRAs (which would be easily one of the smaller changes if they went the herosexual route) - would certainly not be a waste. There's no denying the fact that the game was rushed and there are heaps of things that could stand improving. There could be more open PvP areas, companion quests, there could be free-control space missions, group space missions, more missions thrown in here and there to make levelling more enjoyable, there could be additional Advanced Class missions so levelling is a more varied experience between, say, Sith Assassin and Sith Sorcerer. They could put in chairs people can sit down on. They could include more in the way of galactic lore so people feel more immersed into the story.

Not everyone has already played the game so it certainly wouldn't be a waste for the new folk. These options and plenty more would potentially drag in more players - subscribers and no - and get SWTOR more money. And, as has been pointed out, they aren't changes that would need to all happen at once. Would new content be good? Yes. I'd have loved it if Makeb were considerably larger and more involved. But that doesn't mean the old stuff couldn't do with a work-over.

Besides, it's not taking them all that long; certainly not as long as you're implying. World of Warcraft is taking consistently longer. Burning Crusade came out three years after vanilla WoW. Wrath of the Lich King was almost two years after that, Cataclysm slightly over two years later, Mists of Pandaria almost two years later again. So if we use WoW as a model the SWTOR team is actually well ahead releasing new material (and that's not including the mini-events like the Grand Acquisitions Race and so forth). They could be doing nothing but patches and the occasional themed event until 2015, instead we've had several themed events and a digital expansion.
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SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.23.2013 , 08:16 PM | #1407
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
SK, look. The majority of people who are pro-SGRA know quite well it's a limited-option system. The majority of people who are pro-SGRA are also entirely capable of separating their in-game experiences from their real-world sexuality. You're boiling everything down to oversimplicity again and the quote in your signature says all you need to say on your opinion of what you're boiling this down to.

The vast majority of us aren't here because we're 'totally offended and have to quit' because we just can't imagine that our characters are different than us. We're here because we want to see a feature implemented and have every right to ask for it.
I understand people want to see the feature. But you're forgetting there have been posts of "I'm gay in real life, and can't play this game without that option" and posts of "I'm quitting unless it gets put in" [EDIT: So while it may not be a majority, there are/were still players who said such things]

So yes, there are people who fall into that category, as there are for all the other categories of the TOR experience (PvE, PvP, what have you).

And my quote is a good one It's a very true statement. So was my last quote, but the dforum devs said no quoting any real life political figures...that or they hate Martin Luther King.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.23.2013 , 08:26 PM | #1408
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Not everyone has already played the game so it certainly wouldn't be a waste for the new folk. These options and plenty more would potentially drag in more players - subscribers and no - and get SWTOR more money. And, as has been pointed out, they aren't changes that would need to all happen at once. Would new content be good? Yes. I'd have loved it if Makeb were considerably larger and more involved. But that doesn't mean the old stuff couldn't do with a work-over.
I'm not against the retooling of older content. Not at all. I can just see why BW/EA might not be for it. Why? Because of that bolded part in the quote. Potentially.

Things, in my experience, that help get new players in, is things like new expansions that catch their eye and going f2p (which BW/EA did). What retooling old content might do, is get old players to return, but even then, without other changes, I don't find that to be the case either.

TOR has it's fans who will come and go, and that's likely where their player numbers will stand. WoW of course can worry less about it, since millions of players coming and going, still has them with millions of players. TOR seems to have less wiggle room, not to mention being run by stockholders, where the important part isn't "Is the game good" but rather "are we making money".
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
05.23.2013 , 08:29 PM | #1409
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
So yes, there are people who fall into that category, as there are for all the other categories of the TOR experience (PvE, PvP, what have you).
Sure, but there's people like that everywhere. I'm talking about the majority.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
And my quote is a good one It's a very true statement.
I have issues with it. It's fine if it has a context.
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Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
05.23.2013 , 08:35 PM | #1410
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
I'm not against the retooling of older content. Not at all. I can just see why BW/EA might not be for it. Why? Because of that bolded part in the quote. Potentially.
Yes, but nothing is guaranteed to make them money. Everything is a potential money-maker.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Things, in my experience, that help get new players in, is things like new expansions that catch their eye and going f2p (which BW/EA did). What retooling old content might do, is get old players to return, but even then, without other changes, I don't find that to be the case either.
Without other changes, maybe, but when did I ever suggest that there should be no other changes? Not once. Indeed, I think that not having to choose between option A and option B is one of the good things about MMOs. I'd like to see that broadened, too - sabacc games, for example, or that space-chess game whose name I keep forgetting.

Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
TOR has it's fans who will come and go, and that's likely where their player numbers will stand. WoW of course can worry less about it, since millions of players coming and going, still has them with millions of players. TOR seems to have less wiggle room, not to mention being run by stockholders, where the important part isn't "Is the game good" but rather "are we making money".
Blizzard has shareholders too. That's why Blizzard and Activision merged in the first place; the shareholders decided it'd be a good move.

WoW has millions of subscribers now, yes. It's worked its way up to the position it holds. No reason SWTOR can't do something similar. Although sci-fi MMOs do markedly less well than fantasy MMOs, even with the Star Wars label attached.
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