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Same gender romance discussion

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Story and Lore
Same gender romance discussion
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
05.09.2013 , 01:43 AM | #1291
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
I guess you're right. And by enforcing that view, it becomes part of the gaming world paradigm that plagues us 'til this day:

Women don't play. To play, you need to be independent, have time at hand and need to be able to thoroughly enjoy yourself doing something that serves no immediate purpose in terms of procreation.

Since women's lives only revolve around guys, the concept not only of gaming, but playing in itself is alien to the female DNA. They simply don't have the time and mental capacity. *bows*



Gosh, I hated writing this.
As long as people don't think all guys think like this.
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

Jennica's Avatar


Jennica
05.09.2013 , 02:51 AM | #1292
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
When the majority of their audience is straight males, what do you expect? Look at the complaining that goes on now? Now imagine it 10times as much, when players can't flirt with a character.
According to this survey forty-seven percent of all players are women. And unless there was the survey specifically made for SWTOR this argument is invalid.

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
05.09.2013 , 06:40 AM | #1293
Whenever someone claims there are no girls on the internet, I'm amused because it shows how times change. Girls were rare on the internet twenty years ago, sure, but current generations are pretty much required to have some rudimentary knowledge about computers and browsing the internet regardless of gender. Not just for the social aspects but for school and research. Games just follow along logically.

Although yeah, in game, probably not a safe bet for a straight male gamer to hit on that hot chick avatar and ask for cyber. Strongly advise against that and not just because it skeezes up the game experience for everyone.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
05.09.2013 , 10:25 AM | #1294
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
As long as people don't think all guys think like this.
Who says I was talking about guys? I've encountered numerous women that gave me strange looks and raised eyebrows when they realized I'm a female gamer. This is something that pertains to both sexes, most certainly.

Kioma's Avatar


Kioma
05.09.2013 , 10:34 AM | #1295
Quote: Originally Posted by Lent_San View Post
Who says I was talking about guys? I've encountered numerous women that gave me strange looks and raised eyebrows when they realized I'm a female gamer. This is something that pertains to both sexes, most certainly.
Ah, right. I have found that sort of thing as well, though I've met some considerable level of hostility when stating as much. Girls can be so damn mean to one another. Nonetheless, it still stands. The point you've made is salient, pertinent and really freakin' insidious. It's an attitude that I don't think the majority of games developers actually hold, but too often the products they create support that attitude without meaning to; that needs to change. On the same note I've met too many people who seem to assume that all gamer guys support that attitude, though (conversely I've never met a single person who's claimed all gamer girls think like that). I feel it worth mentioning now and then that not all guys support such a sexist viewpoint.

Please don't think I'm attacking you or your point. I completely agree with you. My comment was simply an additional point.

<fixes italics tags, reminds self this isn't RPoL>
::Please Stand By, Signature Assessment Probe Commencing Analysis::

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.09.2013 , 10:37 AM | #1296
Quote: Originally Posted by Jennica View Post
According to this survey forty-seven percent of all players are women. And unless there was the survey specifically made for SWTOR this argument is invalid.
That survey takes into account facebook games and games played on ones phone.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

WickedDjinn's Avatar


WickedDjinn
05.09.2013 , 11:50 AM | #1297
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
That survey takes into account facebook games and games played on ones phone.
Believe it or not, those are real games too.

Lent_San's Avatar


Lent_San
05.09.2013 , 11:55 AM | #1298
Quote: Originally Posted by Kioma View Post
Ah, right. I have found that sort of thing as well, though I've met some considerable level of hostility when stating as much. Girls can be so damn mean to one another. Nonetheless, it still stands. The point you've made is salient, pertinent and really freakin' insidious. It's an attitude that I don't think the majority of games developers actually hold, but too often the products they create support that attitude without meaning to; that needs to change. On the same note I've met too many people who seem to assume that all gamer guys support that attitude, though (conversely I've never met a single person who's claimed all gamer girls think like that). I feel it worth mentioning now and then that not all guys support such a sexist viewpoint.
Please don't think I'm attacking you or your point. I completely agree with you. My comment was simply an additional point.
<fixes italics tags, reminds self this isn't RPoL>
Highlighted the important point that I wanted to make. I don't even think the SWTOR creators purposely create this game with the mindset for it to be appealing to male straight gamers mostly, it's more the neglect of other options that's been shifting this game in the direction it has been heading in, with male straight gamers claiming this game for themselves, reporting maleXmale flirts as bugs just because THEY CAN.

I've been following Brian Audette and Hal Hood on Twitter. One is lead writer, the other is lead developer, I suppose. Both seem like reasonable guys, true nerds in the best sense of the word, with all due respect for women or LGBT people.

Why doesn't this adequatly translate into the game?

Could it be insecurity on dev's part to take the safe path instead of the risky one? Maybe. I've tweeted BAudette about how I was surprised that male X male flirts were missing from Rep side and he said they were aiming for more diversity in the future. He seemed honest and engaged. I truly believe he feels that way. Why they chose this non-inclusive path for Makeb though, it baffles me.

Right now, those silly straight males (presumably) who claim this game for themselves feel all justified to do so. And they will for some time to come.

That's the thing that really irks me, because even when this game gets more diverse (which I hope it will), those types will then feel as if this game was taken away from them. They will scream bloody murder with every addition that's not catering to them.

This is what entitlement is all about and this entitlement is infectuous and insidious indeed, unfortunately.

I know of course not all male gamers feel that way (and I know you didn't want to attack me ), many many do not, but to often they get drowned out by the noise those annoying types make and don't do enough to fight back. And girls may find themselves playing male characters all of a sudden and enjoying them, because it almost feels like a harassment-free gaming experience, at last. Which may reinforce the view that most gamers are guys and girls are in the minority, since it's an open secret that many guys play female chars. Not once has anyone assumed me to be a female gamer though, playing my male char. I'm automatically assumed to be male.

Strange, strange stuff. It almost feels like we're in the renaissance stages of Gaming and social norms are still negotiable, with the scales only very slowly tipping towards more diversity and inclusion.

SithKoriandr's Avatar


SithKoriandr
05.09.2013 , 01:43 PM | #1299
Quote: Originally Posted by WickedDjinn View Post
Believe it or not, those are real games too.
I never said they weren't. My point is, that survey says gamers, and accounts for those who play any video game.

Example...that survey was pointed to, to suggest that's the numbers for every game. Now, and admittedly this is just my experience and I could be wrong, that's far from the case. Look at Madden Football, the poster I quoted would thusly use that survey to suggest that almost 50% of the players of Madden Football are female gamers, which is highly doubtful (note again, this is just in what I've seen).

So the survey linked to, doesn't stop a game from being more male or female player dominated, it just shows the video game market shouldn't neglect almost half of the people willing to play video games.
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more...than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so *********** what." - Stephen Fry

Bytemite's Avatar


Bytemite
05.09.2013 , 02:28 PM | #1300
Current studies indicate 60% of MMORPG players are male and 40% are female.

Despite certain attitudes and behaviours that might be encountered in game, one of which I just related, MMORPGs are one of the more women friendly genres out there, in part because demand from males gamers for female avatars also happened to create an inviting first impression for women.

Not arguing one way or another, just putting that out there.