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Clickers.


Darthharrington's Avatar


Darthharrington
01.25.2013 , 07:28 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
So..... clickers aren't hardcore players? Is that what you're saying here?
Good PvE players don't click (unless you are a healer and clicking the ops frame). 6 button rotation can be done on 1 - 6 with aoe/circumstancial moves on things like Q, E, T, F, G, etc and it increases your speed because you press the button as soon as it's off cd, having to move the mouse over and clicking will cost you 0.25-0.5 seconds, now if you are on an 8 minute boss fight imagine how much of that time is wasted finding a button and clicking it? You may be fast at clicking but you still have to move the cursor over the spell, etc if the fight is short it won't make much difference but on a longer fight where dps is tight (Firebrand and Stormcaller Nightmare for instance) you will cost yourself a good few hundred dps, if every dps does that you will be about 800 dps down so you will cause a wipe.
S**t happens! Get over it and play the damn game!!

Eztro's Avatar


Eztro
01.25.2013 , 07:29 AM | #42
This reminds me of the old threads (in other unnamed games) about keyboard turners. omg I mouseturn! Noes you should kbturn! Noes you should have a gamepad to turn!

Really? People play how they like, get frustrated either way and complain about it regardless. Your method is not better for me or them, just like my method is not better for you. So get over yourself and go back to playing... how you like.
*No Bothans were harmed to bring you this information*

TwitchingFiber's Avatar


TwitchingFiber
01.25.2013 , 07:29 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Ooloi View Post
Keybinding is a consequence of using mouse movement. Mouse movement is more efficient and particularly for melee in pvp provides a serious advantage over keyboard turning.

If you are using mouse movement, then you can continuously move around people who are trying to keyboard turn and click while you are spamming some number of keybinds, getting behind them.

Some people don't realize that while in PvE if you run behind something and then click it will still allow you to attack the creature without turning to face them, but in PvP you must be facing them. Anyone who can move out of the angle of your range of attack and keep moving can hit you constantly while you're trying to adjust and even 1-3 global cooldowns can mean you're dead and they're not.

Step one is to stop using left and right turns and only use left and right strafe. Step two is to not use the back-up key for movement in pvp. Step 3 is to starting using the mouse to move forward (you can click both right and left buttons simultaneously to move foward. Step 4 is to keybind some essential melee skills to keys that you can easily hit while you are moving around them.

The idea of starting a new character and learning to run around someone in a tight circle while hitting even a few basic keybound keys is a good one. How much you keybind after that is up to an individual's skill and reflexes.

I click, mostly, always have. In PvE it doesn't really matter in this game. In PvP, if you are melee it becomes essential when you are playing against so many people who do use mouse movement and keybinding, unless you just like to lose. I myself have a new character where I'm learning all this. My ranged characters in PvP have allowed me to be accepted amongst those of my peers who are better than I, but my melee post 50pvp toon is pretty awful and it impacts my dps and my ability to support my team.

Being open to new concepts and improvements in your play is a good thing. Sure, it's "just" a game, but it's fun to be competent, and allows most people to have a better time while they play.

What a great post, glad to see a clicker actually post something other than rage and actually well explained thought out post, with many great points.
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Josewales's Avatar


Josewales
01.25.2013 , 07:30 AM | #44
Melees need keybinds. Dancing with bunny hoppers needs your eyes on the target. But static casters can click away easy. So ya there is advantage for some class types.

BW needs to adopt macros like Rift has. Where 3 or 4 keys is all your need to utilize rotations and CDs. For now people who can afford $100 gaming mice has an advantage over some.

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
01.25.2013 , 07:32 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Darthharrington View Post
Good PvE players don't click (unless you are a healer and clicking the ops frame). 6 button rotation can be done on 1 - 6 with aoe/circumstancial moves on things like Q, E, T, F, G, etc and it increases your speed because you press the button as soon as it's off cd, having to move the mouse over and clicking will cost you 0.25-0.5 seconds, now if you are on an 8 minute boss fight imagine how much of that time is wasted finding a button and clicking it? You may be fast at clicking but you still have to move the cursor over the spell, etc if the fight is short it won't make much difference but on a longer fight where dps is tight (Firebrand and Stormcaller Nightmare for instance) you will cost yourself a good few hundred dps, if every dps does that you will be about 800 dps down so you will cause a wipe.
This applies only if you ride the short bus to school.
I have no issues clicking, and using my 1-7 keys with my hand on my Ahhihilation Marauder.
This game isn't hard.
It's all about situational awareness and multitasking, keybinding vs clicking in this game from a pve aspect is a moot point.
If you can't be aware of your surroundings while clicking, then it's the keybinders who are inferior.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.25.2013 , 07:36 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by ckoneful View Post
Yes, it does. If you're looking at your action bar instead of the circles under your feet you're doing it wrong.
Unfortunately the action bar is the only place where you can see your ability cooldowns. And then there's the buff and debuff icons above the health bars.

Personally, I use keybinds everywhere, not just in games. In SW:TOR I've bound my movement keys to ESDF (WR for strafe) and primary quickbar to ZAQ123456TGB. Secondary quickbar is those same keys with shift, and third one uses alt. I also have slots 5-12 from the third quickbar bound to the forward and back buttons on the side of my mouse with various modifiers. This gives me a total of 36 abilities within easy reach.

I don't have anything against clickers either. If you click and are happy with it, fine. However, OP mentioned clickers who complain about their bad performance; those people should give keybinding a try.

TwitchingFiber's Avatar


TwitchingFiber
01.25.2013 , 07:38 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by DataBeaver View Post
However, OP mentioned clickers who complain about their bad performance; those people should give keybinding a try.
So glad someone actually read the post.
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Altheran's Avatar


Altheran
01.25.2013 , 07:38 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Darthharrington View Post
Good PvE players don't click (unless you are a healer and clicking the ops frame). 6 button rotation can be done on 1 - 6 with aoe/circumstancial moves on things like Q, E, T, F, G, etc and it increases your speed because you press the button as soon as it's off cd, having to move the mouse over and clicking will cost you 0.25-0.5 seconds, now if you are on an 8 minute boss fight imagine how much of that time is wasted finding a button and clicking it?
Even if a clicker would need 0.5s between each click and a keybinder only 0.2s between each tap, does it matter when you have 1.5s to do it ? No.

Kazawi's Avatar


Kazawi
01.25.2013 , 07:39 AM | #49
We need to take a stand in the battle against the clickers!

FEEL THE POWER OF MY 39 KEYBINDS! ROAR!

No but really. I am so used to having keybinds that the thought of clicking is repulsive.
I have also been trying to "convert" people over to the "good side" but to no avail.
Most clickers I know say "well, the game is so simple and clicking won't really matter. Once my performance lacks because of clicking I will try to change" and this is the major problem that we are facing. Not the clickers themselves, but the game's acceptance of clicking.
Take Tera for instance; try clicking there. It will not work. You will not even be able to kill a level 5 mob if you're clicking.
In this game you can kill the Terror from Beyond on HM as a clicker with no issues (in my raid team AT LEAST half of the team are clickers and we can clear end-game content. They also pvp to good - if not great - success).
Fix the game, then try to fix the players. As it is now they have the highground: there is no benefit to keybinding other than personal preference.

EDIT: If you are clicking and then complaining about poor performance and then have the audacity to not at least TRY to improve yourself by using keybinding (or understanding that you will never be a good sorcerer if you only use lightning >.>)... I rest my case.

Continue.

TwitchingFiber's Avatar


TwitchingFiber
01.25.2013 , 07:41 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazawi View Post
We need to take a stand in the battle against the clickers!

FEEL THE POWER OF MY 39 KEYBINDS! ROAR!

No but really. I am so used to having keybinds that the thought of clicking is repulsive.
I have also been trying to "convert" people over to the "good side" but to no avail.
Most clickers I know say "well, the game is so simple and clicking won't really matter. Once my performance lacks because of clicking I will try to change" and this is the major problem that we are facing. Not the clickers themselves, but the game's acceptance of clicking.
Take Tera for instance; try clicking there. It will not work. You will not even be able to kill a level 5 mob if you're clicking.
In this game you can kill the Terror from Beyond on HM as a clicker with no issues (in my raid team AT LEAST half of the team are clickers and we can clear end-game content. They also pvp to good - if not great - success).
Fix the game, then try to fix the players. As it is now they have the highground: there is no benefit to keybinding other than personal preference.

Continue.
I'm not trying to convert people, if you think you do amazing as a clicker, click on. But to the clickers that were complaining about constantly getting outplayed and such, what's it going to hurt to try something else to help your playstyle and help you get better at a game?
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