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Why no TfB and EC SM in group finder?


Ghostius's Avatar


Ghostius
01.26.2013 , 07:58 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
^ This. I would never use GF for SM EC or TfB (unless going in with a premade group for the GF daily). I doubt people in my guild or any other raiding guild in my server would use it either.
Sure, GF is not for ppl who have organized guilds and can follow guild raid schedule. But its great for guildless ppl or for ppl who just cant find right guild for ever reason they have. And in the begining of the post, I also said those 2 ops should be nerfed for use with GF.
And I bet everyone in organized raid guilds would come with alts in such nerfed EC/TfB to gear up alts when they not raiding on mains.

soowonlee's Avatar


soowonlee
01.26.2013 , 10:12 AM | #22
Fair enough, but your suggestion raises a further question. Assuming finite resources, do you think that nerfing SM EC and TfB has a higher priority than other projects? For instance, does nerfing these raids have higher priority than developing more tier 2 flashpoiint content? I certainly don't think so.

I guess I'm fine with Bioware nerfing the ops, as long as it was pretty far down the priority list. If anything, I'd rather see them make current content MORE difficult for greater rewards. I think most people are getting bored of what's currently available.
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Ghostius's Avatar


Ghostius
01.27.2013 , 03:19 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by soowonlee View Post
Fair enough, but your suggestion raises a further question. Assuming finite resources, do you think that nerfing SM EC and TfB has a higher priority than other projects? For instance, does nerfing these raids have higher priority than developing more tier 2 flashpoiint content? I certainly don't think so.

I guess I'm fine with Bioware nerfing the ops, as long as it was pretty far down the priority list. If anything, I'd rather see them make current content MORE difficult for greater rewards. I think most people are getting bored of what's currently available.
Im not a developer and I dont know much about programming, but changing health/dmg taken/armor/dmg done from bosses should not be a difficult or time-consuming task.
Also, "most people" argument is really subjective one and I always avoid talk about what "most ppl" want. People from raiding guilds think "most ppl" are people from their vincinity - thier guild who often share same view. But there is other "side of the fence", which are invisible to raiding guilds players.
Again, im sorry I have to bring it again, but LFR model from wow had huge success and is win-win scenario. Raiding crowd could come with alts to gear them up and "other side of the fence" (socials, guildless ppl, less skilled ppl, noobs ) could experience the content.

schnopsnosn's Avatar


schnopsnosn
01.27.2013 , 04:54 AM | #24
You have to realize that the problem with EC and TFB even in SM isn't the damage-output of the bosses, it's the mechanics that will kill PUGs.

jeniyagyu's Avatar


jeniyagyu
01.27.2013 , 03:25 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by schnopsnosn View Post
You have to realize that the problem with EC and TFB even in SM isn't the damage-output of the bosses, it's the mechanics that will kill PUGs.
This^

Was talking to some guildies about a nerf that coninsides with one they did on a raid in wow.... Unless they ....

1. Remove 90% of all Zorn and Toths mechanics (Basicly just a tank and spank) or pugs will have a hard time with it.
2. Firebrand/Stormcaller would need Incenerate/Double Destruction removed and probably the Shield phase nerf even more as well.
3. The Mindsweeper.... Don't even get me started.... 90% nerf there too (No assassin droids/no cleave) Good luck on getting someone that can do the puzzle or willing to do it.
4. Kephass.... ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!! They would have to remove 80% of that fight for sure. (Bomber time up'ed for sure if anything.)

PLEASE don't even get me started with TFB SM (Operator 9/Counsel/TFB Itself)

Short of being able to RUN THRU the operation without killing anything, there isn't much in TFB/EC you can nerf ... WITHOUT killing the mechanics... Even if you cut all the bosses health by half, you still have mechanics that you have to execute...

AND THAT is our point ... MOST pugs don't listen ... The number of times that I've wiped on Hunter Droid Rooms because people don't listen is uncountable... I've seen pugs flat out SAY that they joined the GF because someone will carry them ...

You would have to nerf them to point of just completely tank and spank.... You probably think that is fine .... but what happens when you want to do TFB HM or EC HM? You WON"T be able to because you wont know EC SM NORMAL mechanics.

I know not wanting to be in a guild and put your life around it, my husband is the same way, and would probably love the idea as well, since he hardcore raided in wow, but ... they would have to nerf it so bad that it isn't even funny anymore and would probably be a huge waste of time to go in there and REMOVE Mechanics for the sake of letting pugs do it without worry.

Nerfing HP/Damange wont do much if you can't execute mechanics.

Gwence's Avatar


Gwence
01.27.2013 , 04:50 PM | #26
most GF pugs cant even get past the fabricator in KP

forget operator 9, they wouldnt even make it to him, there's too many things against the withering terror the raid has to do, 80% of GF pugs would not be able to get past that.

lol come on, I could totally see raid taking like 5+ spits before tank got to boss, adds owning everyone cuz no one got in puddle or more than 1 went to puddle, no tank picking up jealous male

EC/TFB through GF would be a disaster, people just arent good enough on average.

DataBeaver's Avatar


DataBeaver
01.28.2013 , 05:19 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Gwence View Post
most GF pugs cant even get past the fabricator in KP
I haven't yet been in a pug that couldn't eventually kill the fabricator. The rooms with the hunter-creeper droids are much worse; on average, there's two or three wipes or near-wipes in those.

On the other hand, there's one mechanic in the Soa fight in EV I'm a bit surprised no one has mentioned yet. Half the time I'm doing that operation through GF, the group is unable to descend the platforms properly. For a variety of reasons people don't get healed, and by the time we reach the bottom half the group is dead. This is especially annoying because the operation can take two hours with a pug, and at the end I don't even get the reward as people give up after the third wipe at Soa.

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LarryRow
01.28.2013 , 08:52 AM | #28
I don't think the community is ready for TFB to be in group finder yet, it's too new. But EC has been out for a while and most people know the basic mechanics. Or they can be explained pretty easily. I've typed it out in chat before and we went on to clear the place.

EC has been nerfed pretty hard too. I've seen people just completely screw up Toth and Zorn. Like, to a hilarious degree. The best is when the two tanks confuse how the switching is going to go, or if switching is going to happen at all. Next thing you know the bosses are running amok smiting dps and healers, getting their closeness buff, etc. and the group still clears the fight with no deaths!

I think the problem is that people expect group finder groups to be easy quick clears. On the tier 1 flashpoints this is a pretty reasonable expectation, but operations are meant to challenge 8 well-coordinated players. I think the moral of the story is that if you think wiping on a story mode op is a waste of your time, you shouldn't queue for one in group finder.
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NogueiraA
01.28.2013 , 11:24 AM | #29
People wipe 10x trying to kill Karagga, imagine trying to kill Kephess...

Ghostius's Avatar


Ghostius
01.28.2013 , 11:34 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by LarryRow View Post
I think the problem is that people expect group finder groups to be easy quick clears. On the tier 1 flashpoints this is a pretty reasonable expectation, but operations are meant to challenge 8 well-coordinated players. I think the moral of the story is that if you think wiping on a story mode op is a waste of your time, you shouldn't queue for one in group finder.
Thats about right, GF groups should be easy in nerfed story mode , with ofc following the mechanic of the fight (which also need to be nerfed).
And yes, I agree ops are meant to challenge well coordinated 8-man players, BUT in HM and NiM modes. Thats why Story mode is called that way - for people to see and experience the story, not to wipe endlessly onyl cos they dont have experienced ops leader or/and ventrilo comms. And that would not interfere with other ppls who want challenge - they would have their challenge and much better loot in Hm and Nim nodes. As I said, win-win scenario, everybody happy.
And it keeps all subs going, intead of me thinking: " Im maxed geared outside of ops, seen my chars story, done all WZs, done all FPs, just cant expereince TfB and EC - so should I afk on fleet waiting for some good soul to take me to TfB although i never been there (but checked tactics and seen videos) or should I just unsub waiting for expansion to continue my chars story?