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Guardian vs Vanguard tank

tintin_milou's Avatar


tintin_milou
01.23.2013 , 07:19 PM | #1
Hi everyone! Thanks for your help in advance!

I have played both a Jedi Consular and a Smuggler (rdps and heal) up to level 50 and am enjoying doing OPS and HM FP's with them.

I am thinking of leveling a Jedi Knight or a Trooper next and would like to try out a tank role. Could someone compare the Jedi Knight Guardian tank and the Trooper Vanguard tank please (in the context of end game OPS and HM FP's)? Thanks much!

Furiel's Avatar


Furiel
01.23.2013 , 07:50 PM | #2
First and foremost, both are perfectly capable tanks as long as you put the effort in to learn them and gear them. So there is a good chunk of playing what you like that is important.

I raid regularly with at least 1 VG tank, and I have a 50 Guardian that I recently retired from tank spec.

As for the general consensus, the VG is generally considered the "easier" of the 2 two play. They have fewer cooldowns which are mediocre whereas the Guardian has some very good defensive cooldowns. However you don't need the cooldowns as much as a VG because the VGs have the most armor mitigation of all of the tank classes.

VGs have better AOE aggro management IMO because they have more AOEs to use, plus they have both a pull and a leap, whereas Guardians only have a leap. VGs also have more ranged abilities than Guardians, however calling the a "ranged tank" is a misnomer because VGs are most effective at 4m or less just like Guardians and Shadow tanks. ST aggro management both can hold mobs jsut as well, however it's generally considered a bit more difficult to manage resources on a Guardian than a VG because of the way their resources and mechanics work.

Ultimately both can get the job done and when played well do a great job, so ultimately pick what sounds most attractive to you and get great at it.
Furiel Plush
Cardinal and Raid Coordinator of The Church of Alvis

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.23.2013 , 08:22 PM | #3
Guardians are a harder tank to learn to play because they've got a more demanding resource system. They've also got the worst threat generation and damage of all of the tanks so, if you're planning on doing group content, you're pretty much guaranteed to have threat problems until you get geared *and* experienced.

VGs are the de facto simplest tanks to play. As long as you keep your ammo above 8, you just keep your 3 CD abilities on CD (Stockstrike, HiB, and Energy Blast) and spam Ion Pulse (if above 9 ammo) and Hammer Shot (if below 9 ammo).

As for leveling, VGs bloom way earlier than Guardians do (Guardian tanks are a pain at low level thanks to Soresu crippling your resource generation and the deep Defense talents being required to offset it), not to mention they have *way* better AoE which they get pretty much right out of the gate which makes leveling a breeze.

If you're looking for a class to learn the ins and outs of tanking with without much complication otherwise, VG is probably your best bet: it's way simpler, which allows you to focus on learning tanking rather than trying to learn how to play a Guardian tank *as well as* learning the fundamentals of tanking itself.

Also, there is actually a Tanking Forum where you can get a lot of good information (and where this question or a variation upon it generally gets asked at least once per month with comprehensive answers). It's in Classes>Roles>Tanking.
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caveslug's Avatar


caveslug
01.24.2013 , 02:09 AM | #4
Kitru summed it up for you really, I will add as someone with both a powertech and jugg tanks. Even with the aggro issues of the jugg, I find it far more rewarding to tank with over my powertech. And while I love the powertech and Vanguards both as a class, the play style is far to boring both as dps and tank for my taste.

I will say with my jugg the only time I ever have aggro issues is in random flashpoints with trash, and only with over geared dps. Who have no clue what a kill order is and feel the need to go balls to the wall on elites / champs first and ignore weak mobs.
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tintin_milou's Avatar


tintin_milou
01.24.2013 , 07:19 PM | #5
Wow, thanks so much, Furiel, Kitru and Caveslug, for the detailed comparison and useful advice I will definitely check out the tanking forum as I level up to learn the proper way to do things.

I like simple So Vanguard tank for me then! Yay! Now if we could just skip the boring non-class missions grind...

YESWEKEN's Avatar


YESWEKEN
01.27.2013 , 05:40 PM | #6
good stuff in this thread. thx

Joshthecook's Avatar


Joshthecook
01.28.2013 , 02:36 AM | #7
Tanks have enough issues with agro stealing DPS (AHEM Sents!) that simple is best in my opinion. One thing they have forgotten to mention is that VG's have to talent their gap closer, Guardians get it as a class skill. That being said, VG's mob control and mitigation are tops, nothing like storming into a mob or two, hitting your AOE taunt, couple of surges and your grenade while your ops team drops brimstone on top of you melting them away. As far as skipping the grind, PvP is a awesome way to go. I am leveling a second VG through PvP, we have a lot of tools that any PvP team needs.

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
01.28.2013 , 02:55 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Joshthecook View Post
Tanks have enough issues with agro stealing DPS (AHEM Sents!)
*cough* Gunslinger *cough*
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.28.2013 , 10:45 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
*cough* Gunslinger *cough*
*cough* Taunt boosting. *cough* :-)

Seriously though, agro really isn't an issue for tanks as long as they're moderately knowledgeable about the fight and abuse their taunts to a sufficient degree. I've tanked against some pretty insane burst DPS, and it's just not a problem.

Regarding vanguards being "easy mode", I do agree with that assessment, but not in the realm of threat. Vanguard threat *is* quite high, but shadows have an easier time of it and a higher threat ceiling than vanguards do. It's just how the classes were balanced. Where shadows are (very) challenging is in managing your buffs and self-heal, as well as abusing the heck out of your short-timer cooldowns.

Here's the general rule… A poorly played shadow will die. A poorly played guardian will watch his group die. A poorly played vanguard is going to bottom out his ammo…and still do just fine.
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