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Buff Watchman spec, nerf Rage spec

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Buff Watchman spec, nerf Rage spec

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.24.2013 , 05:44 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
insert that phrase after every melee class. the stealthers are especially screwed. if you rely on a 4m opener and some form of CC lockdown (both deception and concealment), then bubble-stun effectively ruins any chance of *ever* getting into your rotation...on anybody (not just the sage with the bubble spec).

edit: lol @ the combat being more complex than watchman idea. I think you need a combat sent in your ideal team comp, but I don't think it's nearly as complex a class to play as watchman (taking all buttons & situations into account).
Never really played watchman so I'll leave that discussion to others, but I personally have much less problems on my shadow even in the infiltration hybrid spec. The stealth knockdown isn't enough to pop the bubble and you don't always need to open with it anyway (some safe it for mid fight, combined with force cloak obviously). I feel for the concealment operatives though.

For that matter smash certainly isn't unplayable as a melee class with the bubble stuns. Something about the autocrit buff lasting 20 seconds.

Combat spec though basically relies on a 3 GCD buff with a 10 GCD cooldown to get most of its burst up to snuff. That was well balanced when people could counter it but had to be watching for it. Now they don't even need that with bubble stuns!
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
01.24.2013 , 06:24 PM | #22
it doesn't matter what you open with. they can pop the bubble whenever they want, including while stunned.

I agree, some melee feel it worse than others. it breaks concealment and carnage (in a manner of speaking). but the only one relatively unaffected is the vg/pt burner, cuz they can ip/fb and grenade from 10m.
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
dealing over 50% of a target's health in a single GCD is just insipid in terms of quality of gaming experience.

cbclark's Avatar


cbclark
02.05.2013 , 06:42 PM | #23
I don't see any problem. I'm only doing 800k damage in your typical voidstar in rage spec. I think rage should be buffed more.

Aluvi's Avatar


Aluvi
02.05.2013 , 06:57 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by TheCourier- View Post
I'm not sure why Bioware decided to nerf the spec that requires 20+ keybinds, and buff the spec that is based on 1 attack.

My suggestion would be to make the increased force camoflage duration option for watchman to instead be increased guarded by the force duration (six seconds, if two points are put into the box). That would make up for the nerf that Bioware did to watchman spec's self healing. A buff to guarded by the force's duration would encourage sentinels to use the sentinel set bonus instead of the guardian set bonus.

I have a valor 98 jedi sentinel, and have played the game since early access. I used watchman spec almost exclusively until patch 1.4, and it's my preferred spec. It requires way more skill to consistently do 750000+ damage per warzone with watchman spec than with rage spec.

After patch 1.4, there are so many rage specced players, that some warzones will literally have 4 rage spec players for a team.

If rage spec is nerfed, and watchman spec isn't buffed, then sentinel will literally have no viable PVP trees. Combat spec is awful with how many sages run bubble stun spec. Watchman's dots still tick while stunned. Precision Slash has a 4.5 second duration, which a bubble stun severely hurts. The main option would be to break the bubble with a 10 meter attack, but the sage can reapply a stun bubble once they see the Precision Slash buff.
I don't really understand all the hating on Rage calling it extremely easy to play vs other specs. My Rage spec and my Annihilation spec have literally the exact same number of keybinds. You trade Force Crush for Deadly Saber, and then you have a slightly different rotation, but I still use every ability on my bars that i use as carnage or rage as i do with Annihilation.

Maybe I am just extremely used to the other specs and I find them just as easy as Rage due to my experience with them, whereas others are FOTM noobies? I guess that's possible. But I don't find any of the specs difficult to play in the least. If anything, annihilation is easy mode because you get auto targetting chage every 12 seconds, even from point blank range.
Aluvian (now Aluvien) Sith Marauder <Infinite Darkness> Shadowlands
Aluviann Jedi Sentinel <Triumph> Shadowlands (Retired until sents/maras git gud again)

Knockerz's Avatar


Knockerz
02.05.2013 , 07:02 PM | #25
I have a better idea. Get rid of rage spec and buff watchman and vigilance spec.
Fiery the angels fell; deep thunder rolled around their shores; burning with the fires of Orc

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
02.05.2013 , 08:06 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Knockerz View Post
I have a better idea. Get rid of rage spec and buff watchman and vigilance spec.
what's funny to me is that they nerfed watchman to begin with. it wasn't wrecking anything. carnarge was always the better pvp build. and they buffed a spec that already had good players doing great dmg with it.

iunno. w/e
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
dealing over 50% of a target's health in a single GCD is just insipid in terms of quality of gaming experience.

biowareftw's Avatar


biowareftw
02.05.2013 , 08:25 PM | #27
Annihilation/watchman was good before people knew how to cleanse, and bubblestun made it even worse. Bubblestun kills combat/carnage completely as far as dps.

That said, I highly doubt they are going to keep team bubblestun in this game. Noone likes it. It completely ruined pvp and killed many viable specs like dps operatives.

Annihilation is still fine in pve and it appears combat/carnage is what they want us to play in pvp (when they moved the 80 percent group speed to combat/carnage that should have told you something). There is nothing wrong with combat if bubblestun is removed.

As far as buttons? Rage/focus uses just as many buttons as the other specs. That said it has the least skillcap as far as doing "decent with it".

In carnage slam is replaced by massacre and you watch gore instead of sing procs. Rage/focus has one more button (the extra charge). Carnage/combat is probably the "twitchiest" of the 3 specs and by far the least forgiving.

Annhilation/watchman adds deadly saber, but force scream is borderline useless with the spec. You are watching two procs reset, along with rage builders (but all specs have to watch that). There is a lot going on with annhilation, but you aren't totally screwed if you are a little slow on the buttons. With carnage/combat you are.

Carnage = to annihilation in difficulty. Rage actually uses one more button (second charge, and crush replaces gore), but is much more forgiving.

I am perfectly happy playing carnage IF bubblestun is removed. If not? I will be 3 shotting sages/sorc with a sniper from now on. I can't play my PT/vanguard. It is too boring. Almost as boring as a sage/sorc. With sniper at least I get to hit more buttons then PT, even if I am kneeling down almost the entire time.

If bubblestun isn't removed, expect a gigantic migration to the sniper class, well for the people who keep subbing at least. Many might just leave the game.

Right now though, on a decent pvp server, where everyone stacks bubble sorcs? Yeah carnage/combat sucks. It isn't so much that the spec is horrible, as much as it is an on demand team stun (click off the bubble) that doesn't fill resolve.

Concealment op's/scoundrels are just as screwed atm. Whatever though. They either remove bubblestun or they don't. If they don't? I don't know if I will even bother playing a sniper. Turn based pvp isn't my thing...
Einstein's relativity work is a magnificent mathematical garb which fascinates, dazzles and makes people blind to the underlying errors. The theory is like a beggar clothed in purple whom ignorant people take for a king... its exponents are brilliant men but they are metaphysicists rather than scientists.- Nikola Tesla - New York Times (11 July 1935)

PoliteAssasin's Avatar


PoliteAssasin
02.05.2013 , 08:41 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by foxmob View Post
what's funny to me is that they nerfed watchman to begin with. it wasn't wrecking anything. carnarge was always the better pvp build. and they buffed a spec that already had good players doing great dmg with it.

iunno. w/e
Not really. The burst isn't as high as the other two specs, but the survivability was so incredible people would always complain about it. Gbtf and UR compliment watchman and anni more than the other two specs due to the healing alone. And for those of us that had 43% base force crit before the nerf, 58% with 5 stacks of juyo, we were constantly healing ourselves for at least 300 per tic whenever we'd apply dots, given that all of them generally would crit. That's insane healing, not to mention the damage with little over 900 primary and 79 surge rating. Melting people with dots anf constant crits, all the heals as if i had a pocket healer, at least 100k heals a match, ahh the good ole days...

Carnage is good, its what I'm using atm, but anyone who knows how it works can shut you down. Sure classes that cleanse can slow a watchman down, but not as much as you can lock down a carnage Mara with well placed stuns. Cleansed are on a 5-6 second cooldown. You'll be wasting time since all the Mara will do is out it on you while you wait again for it to come off cd.
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wwkingms's Avatar


wwkingms
02.05.2013 , 11:33 PM | #29
or just nerf rage/focus


when nerfs added with buffs the imbalance remains

annihilation was strong, they nerfed it, buffed rage and *** do u know!? mara's still are imbalanced

so just straight out nerf rage/focus, keep your 48784743 defensive cooldowns and stop crying your class will be fine with a rage nerf



edit: try playing a fking sorc... 8 months ago we ate a nerf.. and were compensated with NOTHING.. our class has NO defensive cooldowns , our best ability (bubble stun) is cried about every day on the forums and our single target dmg is a joke
NIHIL

THE BASTION

foxmob's Avatar


foxmob
02.06.2013 , 12:20 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliteAssasin View Post
Not really. The burst isn't as high as the other two specs, but the survivability was so incredible people would always complain about it. Gbtf and UR compliment watchman and anni more than the other two specs due to the healing alone. And for those of us that had 43% base force crit before the nerf, 58% with 5 stacks of juyo, we were constantly healing ourselves for at least 300 per tic whenever we'd apply dots, given that all of them generally would crit. That's insane healing, not to mention the damage with little over 900 primary and 79 surge rating. Melting people with dots anf constant crits, all the heals as if i had a pocket healer, at least 100k heals a match, ahh the good ole days...

Carnage is good, its what I'm using atm, but anyone who knows how it works can shut you down. Sure classes that cleanse can slow a watchman down, but not as much as you can lock down a carnage Mara with well placed stuns. Cleansed are on a 5-6 second cooldown. You'll be wasting time since all the Mara will do is out it on you while you wait again for it to come off cd.
this where BW fails even when they try to do something logical. they nerfed ALL sentinel survivability when they took a second off of gbtf. meanwhile, the nerfed the range on just about everybody (mostly their stuns). in addition to that, they nerfed the self heal. I've said it before and I'll say it again, multiple changes that even have the potential to affect the same thing should not occur at once. they wait forever to do something. and instead of a gentle tweak, it's like a whole new xpac drops. of course ppl are going rage.
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
dealing over 50% of a target's health in a single GCD is just insipid in terms of quality of gaming experience.