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Full Elite War Hero.. Deception sucks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Full Elite War Hero.. Deception sucks

cycao's Avatar


cycao
01.22.2013 , 02:08 PM | #21
What is this I don't even..

EatenByDistance's Avatar


EatenByDistance
01.22.2013 , 02:14 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ashanator View Post
I'm not hating on decep as this is the build i want as i find the play style better but just cant leave madness as the damage and survivability is much much better.
r u 4 real
Wakalord The Bastion: Hey im mvp
Watch my stream!
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain
...and the only person who doesn't think so is some B-team assassin DPS who is just dragging his team down by playing the incorrect spec.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
01.22.2013 , 02:34 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by RankorSSGS View Post
Unfortunately, the huge giveaway that is VS makes it incredibly easy to shut down a full deception sin. I only dare play full deception in regular warzones where most people are too bad to realize what the yoyo means. If I want to play seriously, I always go 0/27/14. If your server has nobody shutting down deception sins I think I should roll there haha.
I challenge you to explain me how you will "shut me down".

Only to prove you wrong.
Evolixe [ToFN/The Harbinger] Exilove
PvE AMR - Livestream - PvP AMR - BiS PvP Mad/Bal - BiS PvP Dec/Infi
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Open yourself to suggestions from others.
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Dierdrea's Avatar


Dierdrea
01.22.2013 , 03:08 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
I challenge you to explain me how you will "shut me down".

Only to prove you wrong.
It gives away the fact that you are deception in rated warzones, that is enough for most teams to call focus fire on mumble/vent/ts...hence you will be kos and shut down. If you use thrash instead, it is not as apparent but still against good teams they will notice. If you are running 0/27/14, the thrash just reduce the cost of shock, which means you could just pop it without 2x thrash if you have the force. Deathfield at 30 range is much better for stopping caps and dmg anyways.

When I see voltaic slash x2 from a sin, i force shroud right away and 3/4 of the time I see a few resist messages pop up. Works like a charm. Or just chain cc on you to prevent your burst or delay it as long as possible, reducing your effectiveness. Assassins, if not in tank spec, works best if you are not being noticed, VS is a dead giveaway unfortunately due to how flashy and rare the animation is. He prob meant shut down as in the sense that your effectiveness is severely compromised.

EatenByDistance's Avatar


EatenByDistance
01.22.2013 , 03:16 PM | #25
voltaic slash has nothing to do with it since any competent team will recognize surging charge anyways.

your heavy reliance on getting two VS off in quick succession is easy to take advantage of and the fact that it is a weapon damage attack screws you over against a ton of defensive cds that death field can bypass. also full deception is much more force starved
Wakalord The Bastion: Hey im mvp
Watch my stream!
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain
...and the only person who doesn't think so is some B-team assassin DPS who is just dragging his team down by playing the incorrect spec.

Jrmngndr's Avatar


Jrmngndr
01.22.2013 , 03:48 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Xeraz View Post
I think they are including the "second shock" in that calculation.
Yeah I got that but if I don't recall wrong, second shock hits for the half of the main shock, so it's 5-6k for the critted main one.

Wow, I'd really given myself into madness.
Drakeld | Malygris | Jormungandr
The Tchazzar Legacy

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
01.22.2013 , 05:01 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by ashanator View Post
Not actually reading my post, crap

Madness damage exceeds deception.. not comparing burst damage
compares sustained dps spec to burst dps spec

doesnt compare burst dps at all

gets full tier gear

doesn't itemize it worth ****

get out.

Quote: Originally Posted by EatenByDistance View Post
voltaic slash has nothing to do with it since any competent team will recognize surging charge anyways.

your heavy reliance on getting two VS off in quick succession is easy to take advantage of and the fact that it is a weapon damage attack screws you over against a ton of defensive cds that death field can bypass. also full deception is much more force starved
Only if you're implying our main source of damage is VS, which it isn't. The procs still happen even if it misses. The only thing we *may* miss out on is a possible x2 Static Charges. Of course the burst spec is force starved, it isn't meant to sustain dps with. If you actually use blackout, though, you can sustain a heavy rotation for long enough to kill 2-3 people.
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
01.22.2013 , 07:00 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Dierdrea View Post
It gives away the fact that you are deception in rated warzones, that is enough for most teams to call focus fire on mumble/vent/ts...hence you will be kos and shut down. If you use thrash instead, it is not as apparent but still against good teams they will notice. If you are running 0/27/14, the thrash just reduce the cost of shock, which means you could just pop it without 2x thrash if you have the force. Deathfield at 30 range is much better for stopping caps and dmg anyways.

When I see voltaic slash x2 from a sin, i force shroud right away and 3/4 of the time I see a few resist messages pop up. Works like a charm. Or just chain cc on you to prevent your burst or delay it as long as possible, reducing your effectiveness. Assassins, if not in tank spec, works best if you are not being noticed, VS is a dead giveaway unfortunately due to how flashy and rare the animation is. He prob meant shut down as in the sense that your effectiveness is severely compromised.
Seems like you fight some really bad ception sins. And i don't die that easly.
Evolixe [ToFN/The Harbinger] Exilove
PvE AMR - Livestream - PvP AMR - BiS PvP Mad/Bal - BiS PvP Dec/Infi
Quote:
Open yourself to suggestions from others.
There is so much to be learned from other people no matter how good you are.

RankorSSGS's Avatar


RankorSSGS
01.22.2013 , 11:48 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Evolixe View Post
Seems like you fight some really bad ception sins. And i don't die that easly.
I'm pretty sure I've seen and heard it all, but if you want to explain why and how you're apparently gods gift to deception sins go right ahead. I'm listening.
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JP_Legatus's Avatar


JP_Legatus
01.23.2013 , 02:34 AM | #30
I don't think I've ever seen so much nonsense in a single thread before, good lord.

First, deception has way more survivability than madness. The aoe reduction with cloak cooldown reduction alone is worth that entire tree in the lolsmash metagame we play in currently. On top of that, dark embrace giving 25% flat damage reduction to everything and easily maintained indefinitely in all but the most drawn out battles is a huge boon to any class. Smashers cry all the time.

Second, I have never once had a force issue with full deception, not since the game was released and still not today. And I played deception exclusively for a very long time. In fact, darkness with thrash is by far the most force starved (go thrashless people), and dark embrace will end up providing vastly more amounts of force than deathmarks. Madness generates the least force out of the 3 specs, which is definitely not made up for with the thrash/shock reduction talent since deception reduces shock cost by half. These people claiming wakajinn defeats force starvation are losing their minds; there was no starvation issue to begin with.

Third, madness has way more dps than deception. And if you think it's due to tab dotting, you're mistaken. Tab dotting is a good way to get big numbers with minimal effort, but the end result is nearly exactly the same dps as if you had tunelled one healer who never died for the entire game. The only difference is that it's easier to keep your targets from dying if you tab dot, and they almost certainly die if you use your rotation on one target, thus causing your dot damage to be wasted. That's not something you should consider as a fault.

Fourth, deception having more burst than madness is a lie. It's more front-loaded in deception and more back-loaded in madness, please don't confuse these two points as being the same.

Fifth, using shroud to "shut down" deception is ridiculous. Anyone who assumes enough competence to see 2x VS and pop shroud should expect the same competence from the attacker: see big glowie guy, use low slash, wait 4s.

Lastly, the wakajinn spec does less dps than full deception and I hate it. I can't remember the last time I wasn't able to stop a cap I needed to stop because I lacked DF, and gimping your damage output for an ability you haven't fully buffed via the madness tree when you don't really need it is short sighted. (Not really an argument at all, wakajinn is ok it's just a pet peeve of mine =P).

Setting those issues aside, you may all continue.
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