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Don't get Discouraged by Jerks in PUG FP's or OPS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Don't get Discouraged by Jerks in PUG FP's or OPS

PhantomMalice's Avatar


PhantomMalice
01.30.2013 , 10:01 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by ZakMorgan View Post
Just thought I'd share the worst flashpoint experience I've ever had on this game the other day (its a long one I warn you).

Now usually I don't pug, since I always roll with my guild, however I've only recently returned to this game after a long hiatus and without a guild now, so PUGing has become the norm for me.

-Snip for space=

Sorry for the long rant.
First of all, I am really shocked at the level of "fragile-ness" in this game. "OMG you call my mommy fat! Report!", "OMG, you told me to go kill myself! Report!" seriously, these people who say these kind of stuff do not care and neither does BioWare customer support unless some racial slurs were used. All these superfluous "mature" people only make yourselves look weak in the eyes of flamers and trolls. Now, I am not saying go start a war every time someone lash out at you (although that's what I always do personally), but there are times when you need to defend yourself.

Your story fits exactly into the second category. Right from the start you need to start noticing problems in your group. Why are you healing the DPS more than the tank? The fact that you didn't know the reason automatically puts you at fault. Why? Because not only you are fueling whatever mistaken notion your other group members have about themselves/you, but you are CONSENTING to their behavior by remaining silent. First thing you should had done is to check the tank if that POS is even in the correct stance, after that check his gear. With the group finder system a lot of dual role classes sign up as either tank or heal when they are not for faster queue time.

Also just because you took a year break doesn't make you "at a disadvantage". This game is not like WoW or Rift or Tera or other major brand where a week of hiatus and the whole universe filps on you. No, in fact I don't think this game changed at all from a year ago. This means, you are automatically at an ADVANTAGE given your past experience. A lot of players nowadays are post 1.4 noobs who are so used to nerfed contents that they don't know how the actually game mechanic used to work. So in your case of Ironfist's fight, what you should had done is defend yourself that you had been healing yourself and that the tank was neglecting his job to keep aggro off you. Next, the one thing that confounds me the most: If the boss was shooting at you, WHY WERE YOU STILL IN COMBAT?

Seriously, you are a Scoundrel, which means you have1 single ability which all other healers will commit mass genocide to have: Disappearing Act. This skill will vanish you, drops you out of combat, thus resetting your aggro. If things went south and nobody is trying to help you, then vanish and watch with amusement as rest of your POS group die in a horrible flaming death. So moral of the story? Stop being such a weak sheep and be more confident about your class, yourself and your skill. More importantly, learn to stand up for yourself. Unlike in real life, there are no "Parents", "Teachers", "Principle" or "Police" to help bail you out when you are confronted by bullies such as the ones you've met.

ElaineSpencer's Avatar


ElaineSpencer
01.30.2013 , 10:08 AM | #72
Your advice is pretty good. I like it.

I have only seen one instance where we had to kick someone from group - because the best geared guy in our group didn't know what he was doing regarding the HK fight. After explaining the fight in detail 3+ times, the guy was still just standing there every time someone was stunned. We explained why AoEs are useful there, but he just would not listen. x.x

ZakMorgan's Avatar


ZakMorgan
01.30.2013 , 10:13 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by PhantomMalice View Post
First of all, I am really shocked at the level of "fragile-ness" in this game. "OMG you call my mommy fat! Report!", "OMG, you told me to go kill myself! Report!" seriously, these people who say these kind of stuff do not care and neither does BioWare customer support unless some racial slurs were used. All these superfluous "mature" people only make yourselves look weak in the eyes of flamers and trolls. Now, I am not saying go start a war every time someone lash out at you (although that's what I always do personally), but there are times when you need to defend yourself.

Your story fits exactly into the second category. Right from the start you need to start noticing problems in your group. Why are you healing the DPS more than the tank? The fact that you didn't know the reason automatically puts you at fault. Why? Because not only you are fueling whatever mistaken notion your other group members have about themselves/you, but you are CONSENTING to their behavior by remaining silent. First thing you should had done is to check the tank if that POS is even in the correct stance, after that check his gear. With the group finder system a lot of dual role classes sign up as either tank or heal when they are not for faster queue time.

Also just because you took a year break doesn't make you "at a disadvantage". This game is not like WoW or Rift or Tera or other major brand where a week of hiatus and the whole universe filps on you. No, in fact I don't think this game changed at all from a year ago. This means, you are automatically at an ADVANTAGE given your past experience. A lot of players nowadays are post 1.4 noobs who are so used to nerfed contents that they don't know how the actually game mechanic used to work. So in your case of Ironfist's fight, what you should had done is defend yourself that you had been healing yourself and that the tank was neglecting his job to keep aggro off you. Next, the one thing that confounds me the most: If the boss was shooting at you, WHY WERE YOU STILL IN COMBAT?

Seriously, you are a Scoundrel, which means you have1 single ability which all other healers will commit mass genocide to have: Disappearing Act. This skill will vanish you, drops you out of combat, thus resetting your aggro. If things went south and nobody is trying to help you, then vanish and watch with amusement as rest of your POS group die in a horrible flaming death. So moral of the story? Stop being such a weak sheep and be more confident about your class, yourself and your skill. More importantly, learn to stand up for yourself. Unlike in real life, there are no "Parents", "Teachers", "Principle" or "Police" to help bail you out when you are confronted by bullies such as the ones you've met.
A couple of things - firstly I never claimed that the year off was a disadvantage, only that it was the reason I no longer had a guild and was hence forced to pug. I remember the mechanics quite clearly.

And trust me I was more or less spamming Disappearing act and surrender off CD because of the group, so I never always had it available. I was actually standing up for myself - reminding the group that I shouldn't be healing the DPS and myself more than the tank, and hinting that the tank really ought to be doing a better job with aggro. Alas its a little difficult to get your point sincerely across when the entire group decide from the beginning to paint you as the scapegoat for anything that goes pearshaped.

Now don't get me wrong - I'm not this fragile, sensitive little flower that crumbles at any sign of 'bullying', I've dealt adequately with bullies in the real world and I can deal with them with pleasure in MMOS too. Perhaps my only downfall is my patience and civility - I tend not to want to engage in mindless e-peen arguments online with the whole "do you even lift brah?!" rhetoric, instead opting for manners and courtesy. Perhaps they were futile and wasted in the case of this group. I only reported them after they insisted with the insults AFTER I'd left the group - prior to that I was happy to ignore these clowns for ever and move on, but the fact they felt the need to pursue their clown levels of behaviour for me felt they prompted being reported.

And trust me this isn't just about my sole experience, after that little ordeal I grouped with others and cleared content with ease. It was just a little surreal seeing a group gang up on you when you were clearly not in the wrong, perhaps people were desperate to deflect any sort of blame and hence jumped on the first scapegoat bandwagon which happened to be me. Its exemplifies a sad portrayal of some jerkish behaviour in PUGs if anything.
Founder, and proud Agent since day one

pooks's Avatar


pooks
01.30.2013 , 10:29 AM | #74
Half dps/healer queues as healer. He claimed the system wouldn't have queued him as a healer if the system didn't think he could heal. He also had level 27 gear on. No Tionese gear. We wiped 4-5 times. Then he was kicked.

These people don't know about the free 99 Tionese comms nor the free Recruit Mark II gear.

Maybe Bioware needs to put the gear and comms into their inventory when they ding 50.
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Amlici's Avatar


Amlici
01.30.2013 , 10:34 AM | #75
I don't get discouraged. I find them funny. Usually do ops with a guild though because sometimes you need a little more co-ordination than you can find with a full pug group
Amlici 50 Operative Onti 50 Scoundrel
Dalborra APAC

PhantomMalice's Avatar


PhantomMalice
01.30.2013 , 10:36 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by ZakMorgan View Post

And trust me I was more or less spamming Disappearing act and surrender off CD because of the group, so I never always had it available. I was actually standing up for myself - reminding the group that I shouldn't be healing the DPS and myself more than the tank, and hinting that the tank really ought to be doing a better job with aggro. Alas its a little difficult to get your point sincerely across when the entire group decide from the beginning to paint you as the scapegoat for anything that goes pearshaped.
See, none of these things you said are in your first post so I just assume you never knew about them. Now with your new information, there were a couple things which I will add to my previous post. Remember you are the healer, you get to decide who lives and dies. It's because of this fact that a lot of healers develop God Complex. But I digress. If I had been put into your situation, I would start making choices of who to heal. If the "tank" is not doing their job, then don't heal it. If they lash out at you, you say "Sorry, tank gets priority in heals, in this case you weren't tanking". Let them die a few times, if they haven't learn or kick you off the group then let them die a few times more.

But if you see them starting to make an effort, then throw them a couple of heal as a reward and incentives to behave. Also my previous points about checking the tank's gear still stands. Just because they are in full Dread Guard gear (the best pve gear currently) doesn't give them the right to tank in DPS gear and spec. Same with healers; although I am willing to fudge the healers a little as long as they are in healing spec. Most DPS and healing stats are interchangeable, so as long as they are in correct spec, FP shouldn't be an issue to heal. But for tanking, I allow no compromises there.

From what you described though, it sounded like a DPS queuing up as tank and try to place the blame on you. I guess my best advice out of all these is when you notice something is amiss and you are sure that it's not you, check the gear of you team. And when you find something wrong, be aggressive (i.e take the initiative, not be rude)
at calling it out. After the nerf in FP contents there are a lot of scrubs out there think they are entitled to be carried through.

ZakMorgan's Avatar


ZakMorgan
01.30.2013 , 10:45 AM | #77
I never really thought to check the gear if I'm honest, or the tank's stance (he was a Guardian), so perhaps that was somewhat my fault. Ahh well thanks for the pointers, I'll be sure to be more scrutinous over my group members, though in my defense I'm only used to grouping with guild members so I usually take things like appropriate spec, gear and stance for granted. Also in my situation the DPS tended to side with the tank for whatever reason (no idea if it was a fellow guildie, friend or whatever), so in hindsight I think the best situation would have been to leave the clowns to their fate and get on the GF queue again (not really all that taxing for a healer).
Founder, and proud Agent since day one

jorill's Avatar


jorill
01.30.2013 , 11:59 AM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by ZakMorgan View Post
I never really thought to check the gear if I'm honest, or the tank's stance (he was a Guardian), so perhaps that was somewhat my fault. Ahh well thanks for the pointers, I'll be sure to be more scrutinous over my group members, though in my defense I'm only used to grouping with guild members so I usually take things like appropriate spec, gear and stance for granted. Also in my situation the DPS tended to side with the tank for whatever reason (no idea if it was a fellow guildie, friend or whatever), so in hindsight I think the best situation would have been to leave the clowns to their fate and get on the GF queue again (not really all that taxing for a healer).
Im a scoundrel healer and basically in fp hm i usually give the dps the medpacs for the hot and if they still die when im focusing on the tank then its their own damn fault. On ironfist im willing to bet that they werent even using interrupts. Ive had to heal some really poor groups and ive actually never been called out for healing issues. Been lucky i guess.

Elyssandra's Avatar


Elyssandra
01.30.2013 , 12:27 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by ZakMorgan View Post
I never really thought to check the gear if I'm honest, or the tank's stance (he was a Guardian), so perhaps that was somewhat my fault...
It's not your fault... seriously.

Thus far advice has been grow a thicker skin, stand up for yourself, insult them back, etc. This is obviously not your style. Be kind to yourself and work with yourself - if this isn't normal behavior to you then don't do it. Do what feels right for you.

Inspecting & watching others/ mechanics and using your superior knowledge to put idiots in line usually only work if they are idiots without a six foot epeen - these guys obviously were.
My bet is that you could have stood on your head to make public service announcements in eight different languages and people like these would have no clue what you just said - all they will be sure of is that you're a noob and they are not.

In your shoes I would check if I am outnumbered by stupid... and if so I would just leave. Why wrestle with pigs?

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
01.30.2013 , 12:33 PM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by darthgamer View Post
I completely agree with you on it theres no reason for that but ppl like that do exist I had a guy kicked out of my group the other day and he went ballistic vengeance jugg in shii cho wearing greens trying to tank Foundry.
Herein lies the problem.

I understand being new. I understand you don't know the fights. I understand you don't yet have the best gear. I never, ever get on people about these things. But the quote above points out where a lot of the frustration comes from. At least know or have some inkling about how to play your class and your role. If you're going to be relying on other peoples time be respectful of their time by at least knowing your toon and how to play it.

Even with this I can honestly say I have a lot of patience and I will go out of my way to try and help 'less informed' players with getting better. And I will never demean anyone no matter what. But frankly, it isn't uncommon to see someone in a group that has no idea how to play their toon or their role AND they get openly hostile when you try to assist them (in a friendly way).

Those people I'm voting to kick. I have little patience for them. Fortunately, although not uncommon in groups they are far out numbered by people that are willing to learn or already know how to play.
"When you're bleeding out in a ditch on some muckball planet it's not headquarters that comes to save you, it's the guy next to you."