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Concealment Op PVP guide from POTF Ops.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Concealment Op PVP guide from POTF Ops.

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.02.2013 , 12:35 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Projawa View Post
How would you deal with combat sents / carnage marauders?
Scenario 1: (from stealth) So you get the drop on the mara, hidden strike shiv he pops up, debillitate, cover probe, sidestep backstab. At this point he has full resolve, he is going to jump to you,gore then ravage you. . Since ravage is 3 secs channeled, and if you have the enforcer armorings from pvp your evasion is then 4 secs long. Watch him ravage after blowing evasion and shiv him again or shoot him in his fool head.


Scenario 2: (caught out of stealth): debillitate, cover probe, sidestep backstab. Two options here before he pushes you: A) .hit him with sever tendon and start kiting him or los him.) Or Option B) pop evasion and stay up close to him and keep killing him. Since ravage is 3 secs channeled, and if you have the enforcer armorings from pvp your evasion is then 4 secs long. Watch him ravage after blowing evasion and shiv him again or shoot him in his fool head.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

ZUZiK's Avatar


ZUZiK
02.02.2013 , 04:17 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelofCain View Post
Scenario 1: (from stealth) So you get the drop on the mara, hidden strike shiv he pops up, debillitate, cover probe, sidestep backstab. At this point he has full resolve, he is going to push you, and jump to gore then ravage you. so when you stand up from the push and he jumps to you, (since you know what the rotation is), He will gore you, then he will start ravage. Since ravage is 3 secs channeled, and if you have the enforcer armorings from pvp your evasion is then 4 secs long. Watch him ravage after blowing evasion and shiv him again or shoot him in his fool head.


Scenario 2: (caught out of stealth): debillitate, cover probe, sidestep backstab. Two options here before he pushes you: A) .hit him with sever tendon and start kiting him or los him.) Or Option B) you let him push you and save your next attack( and some energy regen) (since you know what the rotation is), He will gore you, then he will start ravage. Since ravage is 3 secs channeled, and if you have the enforcer armorings from pvp your evasion is then 4 secs long. Watch him ravage after blowing evasion and shiv him again or shoot him in his fool head.
I love the part when you say a marauder PUSHES you. Brilliant
Brannera Frostclaw -> Nightmare Lands -> The Red Eclipse

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.02.2013 , 08:20 AM | #43
thats jugg only isn't it. whatever. forget the push, and use the rest. Shiny batstick wielders all die fast.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.02.2013 , 08:22 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by ZUZiK View Post
I love the part when you say a marauder PUSHES you. Brilliant
fixed. it was late last night and there was so much other stuff in my body than game knowledge. And... I was close. warrior ability just wrong warrior AC!!!!! http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/up...lose-pose1.jpg
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.02.2013 , 09:07 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelofCain View Post
Scenario 1: (from stealth) So you get the drop on the mara, hidden strike shiv he pops up, debillitate, cover probe, sidestep backstab. At this point he has full resolve, he is going to jump to you,gore then ravage you. . Since ravage is 3 secs channeled, and if you have the enforcer armorings from pvp your evasion is then 4 secs long. Watch him ravage after blowing evasion and shiv him again or shoot him in his fool head.


Scenario 2: (caught out of stealth): debillitate, cover probe, sidestep backstab. Two options here before he pushes you: A) .hit him with sever tendon and start kiting him or los him.) Or Option B) pop evasion and stay up close to him and keep killing him. Since ravage is 3 secs channeled, and if you have the enforcer armorings from pvp your evasion is then 4 secs long. Watch him ravage after blowing evasion and shiv him again or shoot him in his fool head.
I like this advice, but it seems to assume a pretty bad Carnage marauder. The Sever Tendon snare is actually surprisingly lackluster against Carnage because they can instantly fire off Force Scream and Deadly Throw at range, minimizing the effect of that 2 seconds of snare. These mars can also gap close with both Force Camouflage and their intimidating roar ability, not to mention leap or Obliterate in some builds. Cloak of Pain is also pretty nasty against us, because it gives the marauder a big mitigation edge that we just don't have (Shield Probe is so much worse). It's not an easy fight if they know what they are doing, and if you don't get the opener on them, it can be incredibly hard to win.

My big advice is to pop Evasion only after you see the Bloodthirst or Berserk buff go up on the Marauder. ESPECIALLY if you see both. Evasion gives us immunity to melee attacks, and the majority of a marauder's abilities are in that melee category (as opposed to "Force", like Scream). Given their GCD reduction from Berserk, Evasion can really help you survive for those 3-4 seconds, pulling ahead in DPS while not falling below 30% HP in the process. Evasion is still your "Best friend" as you say, but I just advise using it differently.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

randiesel's Avatar


randiesel
02.02.2013 , 10:39 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
I like this advice, but it seems to assume a pretty bad Carnage marauder. The Sever Tendon snare is actually surprisingly lackluster against Carnage because they can instantly fire off Force Scream and Deadly Throw at range, minimizing the effect of that 2 seconds of snare. These mars can also gap close with both Force Camouflage and their intimidating roar ability, not to mention leap or Obliterate in some builds. Cloak of Pain is also pretty nasty against us, because it gives the marauder a big mitigation edge that we just don't have (Shield Probe is so much worse). It's not an easy fight if they know what they are doing, and if you don't get the opener on them, it can be incredibly hard to win.

My big advice is to pop Evasion only after you see the Bloodthirst or Berserk buff go up on the Marauder. ESPECIALLY if you see both. Evasion gives us immunity to melee attacks, and the majority of a marauder's abilities are in that melee category (as opposed to "Force", like Scream). Given their GCD reduction from Berserk, Evasion can really help you survive for those 3-4 seconds, pulling ahead in DPS while not falling below 30% HP in the process. Evasion is still your "Best friend" as you say, but I just advise using it differently.
It's amazing to see how many combat/carnage spec players there are on POT5. Everybody and their brother is smash spec on my old server, so it's nice to see some variety.

Hopefully others are able to make use of this information against combat/carnage spec.
Covert-sin
Covert-ops

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.03.2013 , 12:21 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
I like this advice, but it seems to assume a pretty bad Carnage marauder. The Sever Tendon snare is actually surprisingly lackluster against Carnage because they can instantly fire off Force Scream and Deadly Throw at range, minimizing the effect of that 2 seconds of snare. These mars can also gap close with both Force Camouflage and their intimidating roar ability, not to mention leap or Obliterate in some builds. Cloak of Pain is also pretty nasty against us, because it gives the marauder a big mitigation edge that we just don't have (Shield Probe is so much worse). It's not an easy fight if they know what they are doing, and if you don't get the opener on them, it can be incredibly hard to win.

My big advice is to pop Evasion only after you see the Bloodthirst or Berserk buff go up on the Marauder. ESPECIALLY if you see both. Evasion gives us immunity to melee attacks, and the majority of a marauder's abilities are in that melee category (as opposed to "Force", like Scream). Given their GCD reduction from Berserk, Evasion can really help you survive for those 3-4 seconds, pulling ahead in DPS while not falling below 30% HP in the process. Evasion is still your "Best friend" as you say, but I just advise using it differently.
this is the more detailed version of the generalized advice I gave. I understand the points made, and will agree, but... I haven't seen Oshmeow in forever, so this generalized information will get you to where you are going.

As for the sever tendon.

Easily dispelled, 2 secs may not seem like much but... (most people not all) if they cannot move forward, they tend to think they are stunned. so... while they are trying to figure out why they can't move you can change tactics. Never underestimate the reaction of a player to a sudden movement loss. 10 meters is still 10 meters. they can throw their sword allllll they want and scream at me. but they will still die.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

ktkenshinx's Avatar


ktkenshinx
02.03.2013 , 11:09 AM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by AngelofCain View Post
Easily dispelled, 2 secs may not seem like much but... (most people not all) if they cannot move forward, they tend to think they are stunned. so... while they are trying to figure out why they can't move you can change tactics. Never underestimate the reaction of a player to a sudden movement loss. 10 meters is still 10 meters. they can throw their sword allllll they want and scream at me. but they will still die.
We definitely both agree that Sever Tendon is awesome. If nothing else it tends to get the opponent to waste a single GCD trying to move. Melee classes, as you rightly note, are particularly screwed by the loss of movement, because they often don't adapt to ranged attacks in time. If you are very lucky, and/or the opponent is pretty bad or panicked, you will also get them to crack their Escape. Less experienced players are wrecked by this move.

The only thing I will caution is that I think you are overstating Operative strength against Ataru form enemies. These guys hit almost as hard as we do, definitely hit faster, and definitely have better defensive CDs. The defensive CD bit is particularly problematic because we just have the god awful Shield Probe and the pretty awesome Evasion. Marauders counter that with Cloak of Pain (60s CD), Undying Rage (90s CD), and Saber Ward (180s CD). You can bet that the Ataru form opponent will have Cloak up every time we jump him, so that's a flat 20% mitigation right there. They will also probably have Rage up, which means we have to be 2-3 GCDs ahead in damage. It would be almost mathematically impossible to win against a Carnage marauder with Saber Ward up on top of all this; the extra 25% tech mitigation is just too much for us to handle.

Part of the reason for this overstatement, I think, is that our server does not have a lot of good Pub Sentinels in Ataru form. We have some decent smashers and sweepers, but our big hitters are often all Assault Specialists. Our jedi pool is pretty bad. Most WZs do not have more than 1 jedi of any class in the top damagers, and if they do, that jedi is probably a Focus spec guy.

Imps, however, have a bunch of good Ataru players. I can think of at least 3 (can't name them, but I would recognize them): one in Casual, one in I AM LEGEND, and one in Old Republic War. I have also definitely encountered a few others in different guilds. Assuming roughly equal skill and gear, Carnage marauders are just nasty opponents. I also haven't seen Meow Mix guys in forever, but the carnage legacy lives on.
The Outlaw Miyke Fink: Scrapper, Prophecy of the Five
See you, space cowboys!: Formerly of Brown Coats
---THE SCRAPPER'S HANDBOOK: A PvP Guide---

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.03.2013 , 11:23 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
We definitely both agree that Sever Tendon is awesome. If nothing else it tends to get the opponent to waste a single GCD trying to move. Melee classes, as you rightly note, are particularly screwed by the loss of movement, because they often don't adapt to ranged attacks in time. If you are very lucky, and/or the opponent is pretty bad or panicked, you will also get them to crack their Escape. Less experienced players are wrecked by this move.

The only thing I will caution is that I think you are overstating Operative strength against Ataru form enemies. These guys hit almost as hard as we do, definitely hit faster, and definitely have better defensive CDs. The defensive CD bit is particularly problematic because we just have the god awful Shield Probe and the pretty awesome Evasion. Marauders counter that with Cloak of Pain (60s CD), Undying Rage (90s CD), and Saber Ward (180s CD). You can bet that the Ataru form opponent will have Cloak up every time we jump him, so that's a flat 20% mitigation right there. They will also probably have Rage up, which means we have to be 2-3 GCDs ahead in damage. It would be almost mathematically impossible to win against a Carnage marauder with Saber Ward up on top of all this; the extra 25% tech mitigation is just too much for us to handle.

Part of the reason for this overstatement, I think, is that our server does not have a lot of good Pub Sentinels in Ataru form. We have some decent smashers and sweepers, but our big hitters are often all Assault Specialists. Our jedi pool is pretty bad. Most WZs do not have more than 1 jedi of any class in the top damagers, and if they do, that jedi is probably a Focus spec guy.

Imps, however, have a bunch of good Ataru players. I can think of at least 3 (can't name them, but I would recognize them): one in Casual, one in I AM LEGEND, and one in Old Republic War. I have also definitely encountered a few others in different guilds. Assuming roughly equal skill and gear, Carnage marauders are just nasty opponents. I also haven't seen Meow Mix guys in forever, but the carnage legacy lives on.
The reason why I mention Oshmeow is that since him, I haven't had a big issue with mara's. THey may have more cd's and they may hit like a truck, but making them spin and rotate and keep trying to face you hurts them more than us. then you add in the 2 sec movement impairment and it messes with their flow of combat. All I am stating is yes sever tendon is awesome, My probe absorbs 3k or more, and evasion let's me pretty much kick the **** out of most mara's and within that entire 5.5 sec stun on top of 4 secs of evasion 2 sec sever tendon and probe, you really need to just be standing in front of them to get creamed,( and if you get creamed) you aren't using your positional awareness and cd's to your greatest benefit.


BTW!!!! this is assuming everyone both has all their cd's up. Undying rage is like what 4 secs, now cc their dumb *** cause they just took even more health away from themselves, to just be cc'ed and watch it expire.

p.s. 5.5 sec stun = knockdown and debillitate in total.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
02.03.2013 , 11:30 AM | #50
btw... I <3 firefly. I always smile when I see the brown coat tag.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator