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Cunning vs. Power


SgtKlavier's Avatar


SgtKlavier
01.21.2013 , 11:38 PM | #21
Quote:
Change your mods for crit depending on amount needed. Stack power. Adjust augments if needed to cunnning. Stack surge. Right?
Augments should always be cunning for ideal stats (though you can get close to ideal with other stats in augments). All balancing of crit and power should come from mods/enhancements.

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
01.22.2013 , 05:50 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by Carnaje View Post
1 Cunning = .2 Bonus Dmg
1 Cunning = .0397% Crit
1 Power = .23 Bonus Dmg
1 Crit = .0398%

Test this yourself, but this is what i have found. Cunning is not as important until you hit DR. Or your trying to fine tune your stats.
a) I have stated the following a billion times (approximately) in other threads.
b) You are ops. I'm a scoundrel. I have to kill you so this isn't helping me.
c) Given the above...

Your maths is faulty because of a factor you haven't taken into account. Each point of Cunning you get from gearing is boosted by talents and buffs to get the value on your character sheet.
You should (if you have an ounce of sense) take the 9% talent boost to Cunning from the bottom of the healing tree. You can also depend on getting the 5% boost to Cunning (and other main stats) from the Consular/Inquisitor class buff. This means Cunning on your char sheet is 14% (9+5) greater than what you get from your gear.
Hence the bonus damage you get from Cunning on gear, as it's a straight line without diminishing returns =
0.2 * 1.14 = 0.228

Yes folks, accounting for the stat buffs you should have at all times, bonus damage from each point of Cunning on gear is 0.228.
This is less than the 0.23 bonus damage from a point of Power - but only by a hair's breadth (0.002 bonus damage per point). And then Cunning gives you a nice boost to crit chance, that is on a separate DR curve to the crit chance you get from Crit stat.

This is why Cunning is better than Power, for any value of Cunning we are going to see for a long, long time. It has been explained many times and isn't hard to discover or understand. Yet still I see people saying Power is better for Scoundrel/Ops. It isn't.

I post this in a spirit of comradeship with my mirror class. In a world filled with drooling glowstick-wielders, we all need every edge we can get. But please don't make me post it again.
It's a small world and it smells funny, I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money.
Ilmarinen 55 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

AngelofCain's Avatar


AngelofCain
01.22.2013 , 06:20 AM | #23
eh... do what you do, I'll do what I do.
Hallow, ägronä, <Status unknown> -(Concealment Operative)
Elite Warlord (since1.2) // Warzone Annihilator

CaptainApop's Avatar


CaptainApop
01.22.2013 , 10:26 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerilas View Post
FOR THOSE INTERESTED.

A post on the first page saying that it improves bonus healing by 4.9 and crit chance by 0.1 is what cost me to buy augments at 700k. (excluding getting my power augments out at 6k x14).

Now I found out he is lying.
For the record, lying requires me to be deliberately misleading you. I made a typo.
I'm also relatively certain you misread MY post. I said cunning had a slightly higher crit chance and power had a slightly higher bonus healing. Not that one or the other had both. And I was advocating cunning augments...

here's a cunning aug'd BiS operative
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...0-b183ad13d690

here's a power aug'd BiS operative
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...b-3b9b072b96be

Cunning one has a tech crit chance 1.25% higher while power one has a bonus healing 2.7 higher.

You still aren't going to feel or notice the difference so my point still stands :P
Though I have corrected the numbers in my original post.

PS: Why are you people breaking out calculators and buying in game augments when there is a character builder available for side-by-side comparison?
"I bind kolto probes to Q, partially for the convenience but mostly for the irony"

Subterfuge legacy - Tomb of Freedon Nadd

Zhothon's Avatar


Zhothon
01.24.2013 , 10:03 AM | #25
Wainamoinen is 100% correct.

1 for 1, cunning > power because of skill and buffs. Failure to understand this is faulty logic or not understanding math.
EBON HAWK - Guerrilla
Silentstorm <Op>

RyanReagan's Avatar


RyanReagan
01.24.2013 , 04:57 PM | #26
Just to explain. There's no such thing as "your cunning being too high", probably "your power is too low".

Augments are 1 for 1, so you should stack cunning.

Now, probably your mods are HIGH CUNNING/ENDURANCE -- LOW POWER/CRIT. In which case you can trade for LOW CUNNING/ENDURANCE - HIGH POWER/CRIT. Because this isn't a 1 for 1 trade. You're trading a combo of CUNNING/ENDURANCE for POWER. So while you lose some cunning, you gain more power than the cunning you sacrificed.

Same for Enhancements. You probably want LOW ENDURANCE -- HIGH POWER/CRIT. Because you don't really need more endurance if you're hitting harder heals.
C.K. <Infinite Darkness> S.N. <Infinite Darkness> K.R. <Infinite Darkness> C.K.² <Infinite Darkness>

Carnaje's Avatar


Carnaje
01.24.2013 , 09:17 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by RyanReagan View Post
Just to explain. There's no such thing as "your cunning being too high", probably "your power is too low".

Augments are 1 for 1, so you should stack cunning.

Now, probably your mods are HIGH CUNNING/ENDURANCE -- LOW POWER/CRIT. In which case you can trade for LOW CUNNING/ENDURANCE - HIGH POWER/CRIT. Because this isn't a 1 for 1 trade. You're trading a combo of CUNNING/ENDURANCE for POWER. So while you lose some cunning, you gain more power than the cunning you sacrificed.

Same for Enhancements. You probably want LOW ENDURANCE -- HIGH POWER/CRIT. Because you don't really need more endurance if you're hitting harder heals.
What Ryan said.

Wainamoinen, your math is right but your still miss leading. Augments are the only thing worth going cunning and even that is a mute point if you feel you have enough crit. So this makes Power > Cunning. Which is probably why you seemed so frustrated in your post. Not because of the math, but more the math means nothing when the total benefit from your gear makes straight power or crit stacking better.

Zhothon's Avatar


Zhothon
01.24.2013 , 10:15 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Carnaje View Post
What Ryan said.

Wainamoinen, your math is right but your still miss leading. Augments are the only thing worth going cunning and even that is a mute point if you feel you have enough crit. So this makes Power > Cunning. Which is probably why you seemed so frustrated in your post. Not because of the math, but more the math means nothing when the total benefit from your gear makes straight power or crit stacking better.
Wrong. You can feel you have enough crit all you want. Fact is that you get same bonus damage from cunning and nearly same bonus healing (marginally smaller). The extra crit you get from cunning will mean you post higher healing and/or damage output. Cunning > power when 1 to 1 comparison.

Now Ryan does make a valid point about mods. Typically the lower cunning/higher power are better than the high cunning/lower power. This is because the cunning/power sum is better in the mods (you do sacrifice some endurance, but no biggie).
EBON HAWK - Guerrilla
Silentstorm <Op>

Wainamoinen's Avatar


Wainamoinen
01.25.2013 , 04:02 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Carnaje View Post
What Ryan said.

Wainamoinen, your math is right but your still miss leading. Augments are the only thing worth going cunning and even that is a mute point if you feel you have enough crit. So this makes Power > Cunning. Which is probably why you seemed so frustrated in your post. Not because of the math, but more the math means nothing when the total benefit from your gear makes straight power or crit stacking better.
On reflection, think RyanR and Zhothon pretty much covered it, so I'll delete the reply and control the urge to correct stuffs. Relax in the Force and all that.

*then goes back and deletes mildly sarcastic third sentence too*

OHHMMMMMM
It's a small world and it smells funny, I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money.
Ilmarinen 55 Scoundrel (Red Eclipse)

Mookind's Avatar


Mookind
01.25.2013 , 07:14 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Carnaje View Post
What Ryan said.

Wainamoinen, your math is right but your still miss leading. Augments are the only thing worth going cunning and even that is a mute point if you feel you have enough crit. So this makes Power > Cunning. Which is probably why you seemed so frustrated in your post. Not because of the math, but more the math means nothing when the total benefit from your gear makes straight power or crit stacking better.
HOLY **** YOU ARE CRAZY
1 POWER < 1 CUNNING
Stat weights are ONLY good for augments, and trade able stats (power/crit,surge/alac) BECAUSE YOU ARE TRADING AT A 1 FOR 1 RATIO,

What's misleading is everyone in hear talking about too much crit or cunning. ITS ENDURANCE that gimps your output

Seriously this is my first MMO but we have ALL played games with gear in them. Boggles my mind how people think about these things.