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Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Tournament - Grievous vs Revan vs G0-T0

Canino's Avatar


Canino
01.19.2013 , 12:05 PM | #141
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Warren has a point, without a crystal gravfield trap tracking down and destroying the Visionary will be very difficult. The best way to kill G0-T0 would be to draw him out, or rather force him out. Revan is a Force user, his capital ship is heavily guarded and well defending, he has assassins, Sith etc etc. So G0-T0 is going to have to pull out all the stops to kill Revan. However if his HK-50s, mercenaries, Ubese assassins and Hanharr all fail to kill Revan then G0-T0 will have no choice to make a personal appearance and attempt to take Revan down himself. In such a case G0-T0 would no longer have the luxury of his yacht and Revan could destroy him. But will G0-T0 take such a risk? I believe so for two reasons:

1. G0-T0 has run out of options, his HK-50s have all been destroyed, and so has the factory (Revan could capture a droid to find the factory). Hanharr is dead. His mercenaries have also been routed and all his Ubese assassins are all gone, he could hire some more but the best ones are dead - and everyone else is now too afraid to try. He has nothing left but a few sentry droids, a yacht, and himself, he has no choice.

2. The rule 'No surrender, fight to the death!' and the rule that combatants can't stay out of the fight if only one opponent is left means G0-T0 has to act. He can't just sit in his yacht and run from Revan. He has no choice but to mount some sort of offensive.

But this all hinges on whether G0-T0's assassins and mercenaries are successful in killing Revan or not.

NOTE: For the purpose of debate, Revan has no knowledge of the factory on Telos IV, despite building it himself. Neither are HK-50's in his powerbase, because the project was never finished and no droids were ever produced.

And a quick scenario for Grievous killing G0-T0, if he were to defeat Revan:

Asajj Ventress, who has displayed an ability to pose as a bounty hunter, does so on Nar Shaddaa. If Grievous thwarts enough of his assassination attempts and maybe destroys his HK-50 factory, G0-T0 is going to start looking for more bounty hunters, fearless, deadly bounty hunters. Ventress fits the bill. And rules only dictate that combatants only know their opponents, not their allies, so this could work.

Anyway, G0-T0 hires Ventress and brings her to his yacht or orders (or perhaps to test her skills) Ventress kills G0-T0.

This scenario could also work if Ventress joins Revan - which is possibly as she had no love for Grievous.
I feel as though that could work, but why would G0-T0 personally meet Ventress? Bring her on the ship? Maybe, but I find that unlikely. If he did, he would probably just use his holo and trick her into think he was human. Also, G0-T0 has been around for a while, don't you think he would know that Ventress isn't real? He has been around hunters for years, maybe decades(I don't know how long he has been with the Exchange). I think he would know a fake when he scanned it.

Also, does no one think Ventrss would try to join Reven? She declared herslef Sith, and was punished. She wants knowledge and power, and actually dislikes GG. I find it more likely that she would try to join Reven, which leads to the question, who would win? Malak or Ventress?
STATEMENT: I'm just a simple assassin...I mean bodyguard, master. You have nothing to fear.
---------

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
01.19.2013 , 12:16 PM | #142
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Umm... Ventress has defeated Jedi Council members and was able to hold off Obi-Wan and Anakin simultaneously. She doesn't need to be a Sith Lord. Maul was just a weapon and he killed Qui-Gon Jinn.

Yes, Grievous is a superior duelist to Revan. He used the seven lightsaber forms in his own unpredictable style that utilized the speed and precision of his mechanical body. Revan has never faced anyone like Grievous.

On the note of Malak betraying Revan: he did so from the safety of his ship. He tried to kill Revan before and failed miserably. He isn't as great as people claim.
OK, so Ventress is very impressive. And maybe she would be able to defeat Darth Malak, but I don't think she is superior to Revan. She held her own against Anakin and Obi Wan, but she didn't defeat them. Revan on the other hand was the greatest Jedi of his age, the Council were in awe of him, and although its never specifically stated, I expect he mastered at least one form. Something neither Grievous nor Ventress have done.

Grievous used all seven lightsaber forms yes, but he was a master of none, which instead of becoming a strength becomes a weakness, if you dabble in everything you excel at nothing. Of course Revan has never faced anything like Grievous, but then who has? Jedi and Sith are meant to be adaptable, none of the Jedi Grievous had faced had faced anything like him before, and yet several managed to defeat him. And ultimately it probably won't even come down to a lightsaber fight, unlike many Jedi Grievous faced, Revan does not have to engage him in lightsaber combat, he can merely use his superior abilities in the Force (which Grievous had no defence against) to destroy him.

And for the record, Maul was a Sith Lord, and he earned that title. Maul > Ventress & Grievous & Malak too. Maul was very powerful.

And Canino, bounty hunters don't tend to have dossiers or information on them. G0-T0 has no way of checking if she is a 'real' bounty hunter or not. In the criminal underworld you can be what you want. If Ventress says she a bounty hunter, she's a bounty hunter. She did actually become one after all, and no one ever got suspicious even though she used to be Dooku's apprentice and wielded lightsabers. Anything goes in the underworld.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.19.2013 , 12:17 PM | #143
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
Also, does no one think Ventrss would try to join Reven? She declared herslef Sith, and was punished. She wants knowledge and power, and actually dislikes GG. I find it more likely that she would try to join Reven, which leads to the question, who would win? Malak or Ventress?
I don't know if she would join Revan. She seems to be coming into her own. She doesn't seem obssessed with power anymore. However, if we are going with CIS servant Ventress, then yes she probably would go to join him.

Malak vs. Ventress? Ventress wins. As I've noted before, she has defeated Jedi High Council members and was able to hold off Anakin and Obi-Wan simultaneously. Malak is claimed to be the best of his time, but against the true best of his time (Exar Kun), he looks average. Not saying Ventress is as good as Kun, but Ventress is just superior.
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.19.2013 , 12:26 PM | #144
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
OK, so Ventress is very impressive. And maybe she would be able to defeat Darth Malak, but I don't think she is superior to Revan. She held her own against Anakin and Obi Wan, but she didn't defeat them. Revan on the other hand was the greatest Jedi of his age, the Council were in awe of him, and although its never specifically stated, I expect he mastered at least one form. Something neither Grievous nor Ventress have done.

Grievous used all seven lightsaber forms yes, but he was a master of none, which instead of becoming a strength becomes a weakness, if you dabble in everything you excel at nothing. Of course Revan has never faced anything like Grievous, but then who has? Jedi and Sith are meant to be adaptable, none of the Jedi Grievous had faced had faced anything like him before, and yet several managed to defeat him. And ultimately it probably won't even come down to a lightsaber fight, unlike many Jedi Grievous faced, Revan does not have to engage him in lightsaber combat, he can merely use his superior abilities in the Force (which Grievous had no defence against) to destroy him.
Edit: Never mind. /sigh
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
01.19.2013 , 12:49 PM | #145
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Again, you are assuming that Grievous will duel Revan without having the advantage. If killing Grievous were so easy, how come Mace Windu's Force Crush didn't kill him? Grievous has faced many powerful Jedi in battle and proved victorious or simply fled.

You expect Revan mastered a lightsaber form? Now you are just supposing things. If the Jedi Order was so in awe of him, why did they send a team of Jedi led by a Padawan, when they sent the whole Jedi Order (plus the entire Republic military) to take out Exar Kun?
As for the not having mastered a lightsaber form theory since its not stated Revan mastered one, Agen Kolar and Saesse Tin who were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, were not stated to have mastered any lightsaber forms either, does that mean that they didnt? No they were considered to be the Order's finest in saber combat so you cant use that argument that Revan never mastered any form just because it doesnt say what he used.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
01.19.2013 , 12:56 PM | #146
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkondo View Post
As for the not having mastered a lightsaber form theory since its not stated Revan mastered one, Agen Kolar and Saesse Tin who were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, were not stated to have mastered any lightsaber forms either, does that mean that they didnt? No they were considered to be the Order's finest in saber combat so you cant use that argument that Revan never mastered any form just because it doesnt say what he used.
And now we fall to assumptions. This always happens in Revan threads...

Why don't we just assume Revan mastered the seven forms and mastered his own form? It's not stated that he didn't, so let's just assume.

/sigh
Added Chapter 66 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
01.19.2013 , 12:59 PM | #147
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
Warren has a point, without a crystal gravfield trap tracking down and destroying the Visionary will be very difficult. The best way to kill G0-T0 would be to draw him out, or rather force him out. Revan is a Force user, his capital ship is heavily guarded and well defending, he has assassins, Sith etc etc. So G0-T0 is going to have to pull out all the stops to kill Revan. However if his HK-50s, mercenaries, Ubese assassins and Hanharr all fail to kill Revan then G0-T0 will have no choice to make a personal appearance and attempt to take Revan down himself. In such a case G0-T0 would no longer have the luxury of his yacht and Revan could destroy him. But will G0-T0 take such a risk? I believe so for two reasons:

1. G0-T0 has run out of options, his HK-50s have all been destroyed, and so has the factory (Revan could capture a droid to find the factory). Hanharr is dead. His mercenaries have also been routed and all his Ubese assassins are all gone, he could hire some more but the best ones are dead - and everyone else is now too afraid to try. He has nothing left but a few sentry droids, a yacht, and himself, he has no choice.

2. The rule 'No surrender, fight to the death!' and the rule that combatants can't stay out of the fight if only one opponent is left means G0-T0 has to act. He can't just sit in his yacht and run from Revan. He has no choice but to mount some sort of offensive.

But this all hinges on whether G0-T0's assassins and mercenaries are successful in killing Revan or not.

NOTE: For the purpose of debate, Revan has no knowledge of the factory on Telos IV, despite building it himself. Neither are HK-50's in his powerbase, because the project was never finished and no droids were ever produced.

And a quick scenario for Grievous killing G0-T0, if he were to defeat Revan:

Asajj Ventress, who has displayed an ability to pose as a bounty hunter, does so on Nar Shaddaa. If Grievous thwarts enough of his assassination attempts and maybe destroys his HK-50 factory, G0-T0 is going to start looking for more bounty hunters, fearless, deadly bounty hunters. Ventress fits the bill. And rules only dictate that combatants only know their opponents, not their allies, so this could work.

Anyway, G0-T0 hires Ventress and brings her to his yacht or orders (or perhaps to test her skills) Ventress kills G0-T0.

This scenario could also work if Ventress joins Revan - which is possibly as she had no love for Grievous.
I'm very doubtful that G0-T0 OR Greivous have the tools to kill Revan himself.

Wolfninjajedi's Avatar


Wolfninjajedi
01.19.2013 , 01:07 PM | #148
Quote: Originally Posted by Darkondo View Post
As for the not having mastered a lightsaber form theory since its not stated Revan mastered one, Agen Kolar and Saesse Tin who were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, were not stated to have mastered any lightsaber forms either, does that mean that they didnt? No they were considered to be the Order's finest in saber combat so you cant use that argument that Revan never mastered any form just because it doesnt say what he used.
If it doesn't even say what form Revan used, then how do we even know he mastered it if we don't even know the form? Agen Kolar(from what I looked up) is a master with Ataru, with Tiin he is a Dejm So user looking it up.
"There is one lesson you've yet to learn. How to become one with the Force!"
―Cin Drallig to Darth Vader

Maucs the Tauntaun King, former SWG player.

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
01.19.2013 , 01:09 PM | #149
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
And now we fall to assumptions. This always happens in Revan threads...

Why don't we just assume Revan mastered the seven forms and mastered his own form? It's not stated that he didn't, so let's just assume.

/sigh
Im merely using your time machine theory to point out contradictions in your logic. The PTO had generally better saber combatants than the Jedi Order's of the past, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tin were jedi high council members who specialized in saber combat, yet it is never stated that they mastered a saber form, does that mean that they were inferior to say: Rahm Kota who specialized in juyo? No in fact id say both Kolar and Tin would beat Kota.

Darkondo's Avatar


Darkondo
01.19.2013 , 01:10 PM | #150
Quote: Originally Posted by Wolfninjajedi View Post
If it doesn't even say what form Revan used, then how do we even know he mastered it if we don't even know the form? Agen Kolar(from what I looked up) is a master with Ataru, with Tiin he is a Dejm So user looking it up.
Where does it say that? Ive been looking and i cant seem to find it?