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"I think the Empire needs sane leaders."

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
"I think the Empire needs sane leaders."

SNCommand's Avatar


SNCommand
01.18.2013 , 02:46 PM | #11
Some choices are pretty much "ME ANGRY! ME SMASH!", but there's also a lot of dark side choices for both the Empire and the Republic that makes more sense, more money, easier, stupid to leave your enemies alive etc
Quote: Originally Posted by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
Personally I would slap Georges hands away from the editing desk, give him a colouring book and then remake the entire prequel trilogy so that Darth Vader uses the force to win breakdance competitions and chokes to death anyone who utters the word midichlorians.

BrianDavion's Avatar


BrianDavion
01.18.2013 , 02:51 PM | #12
thing is a lotta people who play pure LS imp side and talk about strategic choices tend to miss out on sometimes the DS choices are better.

the revolting slaves on Drummond Kass are an excellent example.

Yes you can kill them faster with the LS option. but the DSoption isn't about just being sadistic. it's about cowing future slave revolts as well. every slave whom dies slowly and painfully is 3 of his buddies whom will strongly reconsider any future revolt attempt. yeah sure sometimes the LS choice is smarter. but sometimes the dark side choice is likewise smarter.

You have to remember that Tarkin Doctrine. No power has sufficant military force to rule the galaxy or even just large sections of it by might alone. it's rather more effective to rule by fear of that might being brought to power. which means brutal action that will cow the oppisition into not just surrendering, but not even RESISTING

SNCommand's Avatar


SNCommand
01.18.2013 , 02:54 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
thing is a lotta people who play pure LS imp side and talk about strategic choices tend to miss out on sometimes the DS choices are better.

the revolting slaves on Drummond Kass are an excellent example.

Yes you can kill them faster with the LS option. but the DSoption isn't about just being sadistic. it's about cowing future slave revolts as well. every slave whom dies slowly and painfully is 3 of his buddies whom will strongly reconsider any future revolt attempt. yeah sure sometimes the LS choice is smarter. but sometimes the dark side choice is likewise smarter.

You have to remember that Tarkin Doctrine. No power has sufficant military force to rule the galaxy or even just large sections of it by might alone. it's rather more effective to rule by fear of that might being brought to power. which means brutal action that will cow the oppisition into not just surrendering, but not even RESISTING
Also have the one in the same area where you let the strongest and most brutal slaves move up in the ranks, a tactic used in real life because of the efficiency
Quote: Originally Posted by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
Personally I would slap Georges hands away from the editing desk, give him a colouring book and then remake the entire prequel trilogy so that Darth Vader uses the force to win breakdance competitions and chokes to death anyone who utters the word midichlorians.

Lium's Avatar


Lium
01.18.2013 , 03:04 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by BrianDavion View Post
thing is a lotta people who play pure LS imp side and talk about strategic choices tend to miss out on sometimes the DS choices are better.

the revolting slaves on Drummond Kass are an excellent example.

Yes you can kill them faster with the LS option. but the DSoption isn't about just being sadistic. it's about cowing future slave revolts as well. every slave whom dies slowly and painfully is 3 of his buddies whom will strongly reconsider any future revolt attempt. yeah sure sometimes the LS choice is smarter. but sometimes the dark side choice is likewise smarter.

You have to remember that Tarkin Doctrine. No power has sufficant military force to rule the galaxy or even just large sections of it by might alone. it's rather more effective to rule by fear of that might being brought to power. which means brutal action that will cow the oppisition into not just surrendering, but not even RESISTING
Fear only causes more rebellions in the long run. Sure, that particular group may never rise up again. But you can bet others will, using the atrocities of what happened to the other slaves as proof that the Empire is evil and sadistic.

Real life history has shown this repeatedly. Or, hell, just read the Hunger Games.

SNCommand's Avatar


SNCommand
01.18.2013 , 03:10 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Lium View Post
Fear only causes more rebellions in the long run. Sure, that particular group may never rise up again. But you can bet others will, using the atrocities of what happened to the other slaves as proof that the Empire is evil and sadistic.

Real life history has shown this repeatedly. Or, hell, just read the Hunger Games.
I wouldn't exactly cite the hunger games as a good source for society progression

Also real life does show that the population in countries like China seem at least a lot less noisy than their western counterparts, I'm not saying China is going to last as a oppressive regime forever, but neither will all the western democracies
Quote: Originally Posted by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
Personally I would slap Georges hands away from the editing desk, give him a colouring book and then remake the entire prequel trilogy so that Darth Vader uses the force to win breakdance competitions and chokes to death anyone who utters the word midichlorians.

Traejun's Avatar


Traejun
01.18.2013 , 03:50 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
That's why the Empire always ends up losing to the Republic. If they all stopped bickering and backstabbing each other, they'd have taken over the galaxy long ago.
Empire always ends up losing because Republic is "good" and Empire is "bad". Good guys always have to beat bad guys in fantasy stories. And, in case anyone is wondering, SW is just a fantasy story with lasers and space ships.

Ceyvel's Avatar


Ceyvel
01.18.2013 , 05:23 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by SNCommand View Post
... I'm not saying China is going to last as a oppressive regime forever...
And Russians are all in ushankas and always wth a bottle of vodka and also have bears riding bicycles everyone on streets.

But then who am I kidding? Fox news is still in high demand.

On a more serious note, China has no longer an oppressive regime in it's full meaning for several decades. It can be characterised as a soft-core authoritarian country with plenty of social democracy elements and even market economy, however without many of it's flaws that can be seen in developed western capitalistic countries.

But I am not here to argue about China's political system, you are free to keep believing in whatever you want, it's just a shame people continue to stick to old stereotypes.

P.S. Unfortunately most of Light Side choices for Republic are just as dumb as Dark Side choice for Empire. I guess those are the flaws that keep both sides at relative balance (more like a fluctuating system). Neither radical democracy (yeah, weird, I know) nor all kinds of radical authoritarian regimes work.

SNCommand's Avatar


SNCommand
01.18.2013 , 05:32 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ceyvel View Post
And Russians are all in ushankas and always wth a bottle of vodka and also have bears riding bicycles everyone on streets.

But then who am I kidding? Fox news is still in high demand.

On a more serious note, China has no longer an oppressive regime in it's full meaning for several decades. It can be characterised as a soft-core authoritarian country with plenty of social democracy elements and even market economy, however without many of it's flaws that can be seen in developed western capitalistic countries.

But I am not here to argue about China's political system, you are free to keep believing in whatever you want, it's just a shame people continue to stick to old stereotypes.
Like you said, don't want a political discussion in the star wars forum, probably against the rules, but I do feel the need for at least one rebuttal

Because I do feel that I can characterize China as a oppressive regime compared to the world at large, now it's not North Korea, no USSR and certainly no SIth Empire, but it is a country based on authoritative principles, no freedom of election, no freedom of speech, no freedom of religion, no justice for all

No state is truly free, but at least some countries don't send tanks after protesters or create prison camps for dissidents
Quote: Originally Posted by Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw
Personally I would slap Georges hands away from the editing desk, give him a colouring book and then remake the entire prequel trilogy so that Darth Vader uses the force to win breakdance competitions and chokes to death anyone who utters the word midichlorians.

Pscyon's Avatar


Pscyon
01.18.2013 , 05:45 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Ceyvel View Post
P.S. Unfortunately most of Light Side choices for Republic are just as dumb as Dark Side choice for Empire.
Urgh. I've yet to level a republican all the way to 50 I admit, but I've played far enough to hit more than plenty of those nauseatingly patriotic "Derp, for the Republic!" or "It is my duty to always serve!" lines when I just wanted to say what it says clicking "Sure, I'll help" or "No additional reward neccessary" in conversation with a quest giver. So now I always try picking the more neutral options to not seem like a completely brainwashed door mat.
Sith Sorcerer

LogicalPremise's Avatar


LogicalPremise
01.18.2013 , 05:49 PM | #20
The difference between why some make LS and DS choices really comes down to what is realistic.

None of us has ever been in a situation where if someone angers us we can just kill them and there are literally zero repercussions. It's tempting to say "LS is the smart way", but it isn't always, and not just because of the Tarkin Doctrine.

In the context of the society the Sith live in, anything that doesn't serve you personally is likely to be wasted in the long run. What's the point of letting someone go in a society that values and cherishes betrayal and where perceived weakness is a liability? What's the point of working with Jedi when the Jedi are utterly inflexible about accepting the Sith doctrines as having any validity at all?

But on a larger scale, the LS choices all too often turn out to be of dubious moral value. Actions that seem "good" have ramifications, but the entire society is rotten to it's core. Doing things 'for the evulz' is not always needed, but you literally can't be sure someone you let live today won't get used against you in some plot tomorrow. Every action you think you're taking to make the Empire a better place may get twisted into something worse by a power-tripping lunatic you aren't even aware of.

Spoiler


Better to electrocute everything. There can be no uncertainty with the finality of death.
Majynn, L65 Sorc - Harbinger
Garadan, L58 Jugg- Harbinger
Vongrath, L35 Op - Harbinger
Tradius Ahern, L65 Gunslinger - BB&B- Harbinger