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Is Min/maxed WH/EWH enough for TFB HM.


CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
01.19.2013 , 05:38 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Aerilas View Post
Hi all.
I'm a PVP based operative healer and I am the main healer in our RWZ team.
I love the challenge that it poses to keep everybody up and maintain my energy.
Unfortunately, these kinds of matches are rare yet so full of potential to learn to heal under severe stress.

Therefore I've started looking into PvE. In my first day I did LI HM and EV HM.
These were walks in the park and I was severely dissapointed because on my shadow tank some healers seem to struggle with the fight.

The next day I got into a TFB HM. Now I've only ever done everything up until EC HM on my tank. Never anything on my healer, never TFB. I was a pug together with 2 more who joined a gulid run. This was obviously not the best group.
I had read up on the tactics and nothing more.

On the first boss we wiped a few times cuz we messed up the yellow circles combined with the blood pools quite alot. It was cleared after a few times so we moved on to the 2nd boss. The group leader had doubts about my gear since Dread Guard isnt that easy to heal. Yet after a mere 2 tries we cleared it already.

Now my question is. Do you experienced raiders find Min maxed combo of WH and EWH gear to be enough for TFB HM? As a single player or a whole team. I didn't do the other bosses cuz we decided to stop where we were. People had to go.
Long story short: Can it be done? Yes. Should it be done? Probably not,

On my first character I hit 50 without ever doing a warzone or having a single piece of commendation. After obtaining a full set of Rakata, I realized it didn't mean anything for PvP, so I had to step out of it and go in and get stomped over and over again in full Recruit. Had to grind my PvP gear from nothing to all the way up to Elite War Hero.

For a PvP in BiS PvP gear to go into a PvE Operation and get the BiS PvE gear right off the bat without ever grinding the previous tier seems wrong in comparison. But if you can do it and they let you do it, why not? Saves you time.

But the best part is that something renders this discussion completely moot. As a PvP'er you're getting a torrent of warzone commendations each day. So, buy the cheapest WH piece, buy a piece of appropirate Legacy item, rip the mods out, send it over to your Cybertech, RE the mods into Molecular Stabilizers, have a crafter craft them into Armorings, Mods, Enhancements. You can have BiS PvE gear without ever setting foot in an Operation, then when you do enter, no one will complain about you wearing nothing but PvP gear, in fact they'll probably think you're an elite raider.

There. Being a frequent PvP'er is the best and fastest way to get PvE gear. Logical?
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
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Mookind's Avatar


Mookind
01.19.2013 , 06:10 PM | #42
I have cleared the instance in PVP min maxed Op gear.

Pretty easy to do.

Edit - This wasn't a progression group just standing in for some one, they had cleared it I assume many times

Ruskaeth's Avatar


Ruskaeth
01.21.2013 , 04:09 AM | #43
Being a good healer is a matter of skill > gear, to a point at least and that is the point people are discussing? Any healer who knows when to do and what to do encounter mechanic wise, can most likely handle all operations in optimized WH/EWH gear. This is including EC NiM. However, NiM might be a bit of stretch and that is the only place I see PvP geared healer carried, if anywhere. In any case, it should be doable in theory.

I'd rather take good and mechanic understanding PvP geared healer with me than a healer who's grinded molecular stabilizers and BH gear for a month to get semi 63 set up and still has a low general awarness about operation encounters. In a way, I tend to trust that a good PvP healer is more prepared skill wise to handle operations -have they PVE gear or not. But that's just me. In essence to the PvP healer who started this conversation: 95% of the time: skill > gear. In your case I believe it would make it more pleasant in EC NiM to have optimized PVE gear but I would not skip going if you are asked to.

Respect for handling the Dread Guards, it's easily the most annoying fight up to date to heal. And to whoever said it's a matter of tank being geared, seriously, that fight is annoying to heal when people take unnecessary damage (ie: healers + dps not paying attention to where they stand). In fact, it's almost non-existant stress to heal the tanks if everyone else is doing an excellent job.

fitzmagic's Avatar


fitzmagic
01.21.2013 , 09:17 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Could you link an AMR profile to that? I'd like to see the gear makeup.
Im not sure how to do that. Further looking at my stats the change was 709 bonus healing and 961 bonus damage. When I wear pve gear bonus healing is only 658. But my main heals drop significantly. nano tech goes from 4807 in PVP gear to 3800 in PVE gear, and injection drops 700 points. PVPers in my experience can certainly wear there gear in pve but not the other way around. Expertise only works for pvp. You cant say the same for pvp gear in pve bc Power, surge, crit alacrity all work the same in pve. Yes you lose main stat and some endurance but not enough to justify not using pvp gear. IF im still above 20k hp and my power is in the 880's and my base heals a greatly higher bc of my pvp gear why would I put gear that lowers my main abilities to perform just bc im now in a PVE area? You may want pvp gear to only work in pvp but it works in both. Its the game designers fault for making PVE not suitable for pvp. It might change with a set bonus with campaign or dred gear but for straight blackhole itemized pvp is better.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.21.2013 , 01:18 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by fitzmagic View Post
Im not sure how to do that. Further looking at my stats the change was 709 bonus healing and 961 bonus damage. When I wear pve gear bonus healing is only 658. But my main heals drop significantly. nano tech goes from 4807 in PVP gear to 3800 in PVE gear, and injection drops 700 points. PVPers in my experience can certainly wear there gear in pve but not the other way around. Expertise only works for pvp. You cant say the same for pvp gear in pve bc Power, surge, crit alacrity all work the same in pve. Yes you lose main stat and some endurance but not enough to justify not using pvp gear. IF im still above 20k hp and my power is in the 880's and my base heals a greatly higher bc of my pvp gear why would I put gear that lowers my main abilities to perform just bc im now in a PVE area? You may want pvp gear to only work in pvp but it works in both. Its the game designers fault for making PVE not suitable for pvp. It might change with a set bonus with campaign or dred gear but for straight blackhole itemized pvp is better.
Ah. Thanks for the clarification. When you said 795 bonus healing my eyes boggled, as I didn't think my PvP itemization was that far off. Actually, I wonder if it is even possible to get bonus healing that high (in PvP gear) without sacrificing so much crit and surge that it becomes counter-productive.

If you're interested, AMR is an abbreviation for Ask Mr Robot, a site that has the TOR gear database in it, and an interface to select all the gear you're currently wearing. If you match your gear, build, buffs, legacy, datacrons and stims, you can get the calculated stats pretty much the same as what you currently have.

You can then save that profile, and fiddle with it (swap out gear or mods) and see what it does to your stats. I find this invaluable to deciding which piece of gear to get next.

Edit: If your PvE bonus healing is 658 I'm guessing you're a mix of Rakata/Black Hole. In that case, your Elite War Hero is definitely going to be better. But if you want to run NM EC, why not get some Campaign and Dread Guard first? If you're really that skilled a healer in PvP gear, imagine how awesome you would be in full Campaign!

fitzmagic's Avatar


fitzmagic
01.22.2013 , 10:25 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
Ah. Thanks for the clarification. When you said 795 bonus healing my eyes boggled, as I didn't think my PvP itemization was that far off. Actually, I wonder if it is even possible to get bonus healing that high (in PvP gear) without sacrificing so much crit and surge that it becomes counter-productive.

If you're interested, AMR is an abbreviation for Ask Mr Robot, a site that has the TOR gear database in it, and an interface to select all the gear you're currently wearing. If you match your gear, build, buffs, legacy, datacrons and stims, you can get the calculated stats pretty much the same as what you currently have.

You can then save that profile, and fiddle with it (swap out gear or mods) and see what it does to your stats. I find this invaluable to deciding which piece of gear to get next.

Edit: If your PvE bonus healing is 658 I'm guessing you're a mix of Rakata/Black Hole. In that case, your Elite War Hero is definitely going to be better. But if you want to run NM EC, why not get some Campaign and Dread Guard first? If you're really that skilled a healer in PvP gear, imagine how awesome you would be in full Campaign!

That mr robot seems like a lot of time. My PVE is black hole with 2 campaign for the main pieces( head thru boots and offhand) The rest minus an implant( blackhole) are Elite WH. No one seems to run NIM or really HMEC IF im lucky when im on i may see tells for EC but its for a tank or dps bc its guild runs and there filling in a spot for missing guildy. I could see the 4 piece campaign bonus helping but for now pvp gear is where its at for me.

ParagonAX's Avatar


ParagonAX
01.22.2013 , 10:50 AM | #47
Skill >>> gear in this game.

In a pvp sense, I would much rather have a guildie in full recruit gear than a pug in WH gear, because I have faith that the guildie has situation awareness that will contribute to us winning the game.

In a similar sense, would I take a pug WH healer into an Ops? No. Would I take an EWH RWZ healer though? Hell yes. Healing in RWZs is perhaps the most demanding / skillbased play of the entire game, next to the Jugg tank in RWZs.
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dinwitt's Avatar


dinwitt
01.22.2013 , 12:13 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
I fiddled around with some AMR profiles. Mind you, I didn't really take the time to properly min-max these. I just plopped the gear on, replaced any lettered mods and corrected a few egregious problems with stock gear. I'm sure someone could tweak these much better than I did.

That said, here's what I got:
Elite War Hero (with PvE stim)
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...1-a8ef99c2790f
1901 cunning
673 bonus healing
35% crit
77% surge
19k hp

Full Campaign (stimmed)
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...9-62a61bf7421b
2308 Cunning
751 Bonus Healing
35% crit
78% surge
20k hp

I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't go into HM TfB or NM EC with that gear, but honestly, look how much better the Campaign stuff is. Why not run HM EC and get some PvE gear first?
Advanced Skill Armoring and Barrel 27 give 72 main stat, Advanced Artful Mod 27 gives 56 main stat. The 23 versions give 48 and 37 respectively. Across 9 slots this means a difference of 387 main stat. If the quote above is correct, then the main stat difference between PvE and PvP gear is 407. So the next time you ask if doing an operation in PvP gear is fine, perhaps you should be asking instead if doing that operation in Tionese would be okay.

No, it isn't a perfect comparison, since I'm not including earpieces, implants, relics, buffs, talents, or secondary stats. But it is food for thought.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.22.2013 , 12:41 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by dinwitt View Post
Advanced Skill Armoring and Barrel 27 give 72 main stat, Advanced Artful Mod 27 gives 56 main stat. The 23 versions give 48 and 37 respectively. Across 9 slots this means a difference of 387 main stat. If the quote above is correct, then the main stat difference between PvE and PvP gear is 407. So the next time you ask if doing an operation in PvP gear is fine, perhaps you should be asking instead if doing that operation in Tionese would be okay.

No, it isn't a perfect comparison, since I'm not including earpieces, implants, relics, buffs, talents, or secondary stats. But it is food for thought.
As you szid, you are "forgetting" the secondary stats, and yes, they make a big difference.
Stats wise, EWH is close of Rakata. So net time you ask if doing an operation in PVP gear is fine, perhaps you should be asking instead if doing that operation in Rakata is fine.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
01.22.2013 , 02:09 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
As you szid, you are "forgetting" the secondary stats, and yes, they make a big difference.
Stats wise, EWH is close of Rakata. So net time you ask if doing an operation in PVP gear is fine, perhaps you should be asking instead if doing that operation in Rakata is fine.
Don't forget that the rating of the main hand makes a bigger difference than just the stat allocation.

I have a 26 Reflex barrel in my Commando dps. If I swap it out for a 27 War Hero barrel, my aim goes down but my primary damage goes up. That's due to the rating on the barrel.

EWH is better than Rakata, but not as good as Campaign/Black Hole for PvE.