Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

For Those Who Think PVE Gear Works in PVP...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
For Those Who Think PVE Gear Works in PVP...

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
01.17.2013 , 05:06 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
um, you are aware that expertise calculations were changed in 1.2? and that they have been the same ever since? aka the graph i posted is 100% relevant.


imo, it is not smart to trade more than 2 or 3 pieces of gear for non-expertise versions. you can come up with all kinds of graphs that you want for your own stat scaling w/ different combinations of gear. but all of that goes out the window when you go up against someone w/ more expertise than you.

lets say you have 1050 expertise. its ~20% damage bonus, ~17% damage redux. now say you go up against someone w/ 1300 expertise; they have ~25% damage bonus, and ~20% damage redux. the 3-5% damage/heath bonus you are gaining by giving up that expertise is wiped out by the net loss of expertise. you will take ~5% more damage, and you will deal ~5% less damage, ie net loss of 10%. combined, you are losing ~5% overall performance against players stacking that much expertise
Yep. You're right, my 7-8k smashes mean I don't know how to min/max. Suppose I should keep stock gear and have 5k ones.
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
+ =

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.17.2013 , 05:16 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by itsmymillertime View Post
and yet no one talks about the opponents expertise and how it effects this equation.
Yes... In a DPS, race I would win versus you; given the same approximate rolls/attacks & if we both tried to down the same person, I would win that DPS race in a landslide....


Good enough?


Oh and this:
Quote: Originally Posted by rob_y View Post
Also, I believe you're building up a bit of a straw man here - I don't really see anyone claiming that a full PvE set is best for PvP. Most people seem to be trying to trade expertise 1:1 (or close to it) for regular stats when they can,
I am just a bit more radical about it cause I actually used AskMrRobot, along with Darth Hater to graph out Sweep output I did a piece my piece plot with Pure PvP versus "Hybrid"... And 1100EXP+ is the cutoff where the exchange of HP for mitigation is not favorable, and the hybrid build also produced a ~1% attack advantage. Small? Yes, but the point, as another person put it to me, is to get every little bit you can....
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

itsmymillertime's Avatar


itsmymillertime
01.17.2013 , 05:16 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
Giggle. Show us your numbers please
I dont have numbers like you also dont have numbers. no one has posted information other than "i do more damage" when they do not take into account the expertise of the opponent, your 7-8k smashes mean nothing unless you tell us your opponents expertise.

The goal of the thread was finding proof, and no one in this thread and proved their point with evidence.

itsmymillertime's Avatar


itsmymillertime
01.17.2013 , 05:20 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by L-RANDLE View Post
I am just a bit more radical about it cause I actually used AskMrRobot, along with Darth Hater to graph out Sweep output I did a piece my piece plot with Pure PvP versus "Hybrid"... And 1100EXP+ is the cutoff where the exchange of HP for mitigation is not favorable, and the hybrid build also produced a ~1% attack advantage. Small? Yes, but the point, as another person put it to me, is to get every little bit you can....
what is the damage of your sweep at 1100 exp vs someone at 500 exp, 1000 exp 1200 exp and 1300 exp?

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
01.17.2013 , 05:23 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by itsmymillertime View Post
I dont have numbers like you also dont have numbers. no one has posted information other than "i do more damage" when they do not take into account the expertise of the opponent, your 7-8k smashes mean nothing unless you tell us your opponents expertise.

The goal of the thread was finding proof, and no one in this thread and proved their point with evidence.
I posted exact numbers below on using just pve armorings in bracer/belt. I showed the damage and HP increase. Along with the tiny loss in damage reduction. What more proof do you need? Log into my account and play my mix max toons?

If people want to continue to play with stock gear that's fine, but posting misleading info on the pvp forums isn't a good thing. The highest dps/healing is not possible with stock pvp gear.
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
+ =

JenseitsvonBose's Avatar


JenseitsvonBose
01.17.2013 , 05:44 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Rendolphe View Post
Healers is a must to get your belt and bracer PvE for more stats. The healing buff from Expertise get diminishing returns really fast.
No, not really. A friend of mine ran some tests and did the math for scoundrel heals, found that the optimal expertise number (for a sawbones build) was 850... which netted him a whopping 1.4% boost to survivability. Which is consistent w what I've found during my own less formal testing. And that's with swapping out slots with a mind to maintaining proper itemization, not just swapping willy-nilly (subbing in my pve belt/bracers would do nothing but push me waaaay over the crit soft-cap). IOW, not really worth the cost or hassle.

We also had a sage healer who swapped pve and pvp armorings for the set bonuses, which resulted in a gain of < 1% increase to effective heals. These are all basically BiS toons, so we're talking about pieces that a good chunk of the player-base can't afford.

TL;DR It's different for every AC / build, not just for heals/dps/tank, and, even if you re-slot properly, you'll probably get next to nothing out of it.
Jenseitsvonbose | Gunsmoke | Mcroyal
Shortbus - Resident Tendon Blaster - "What's a CC?"

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
01.17.2013 , 06:53 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by itsmymillertime View Post
what is the damage of your sweep at 1100 exp vs someone at 500 exp, 1000 exp 1200 exp and 1300 exp?
The real question is:

What is the damage of your sweep at 1100 exp vs someone at 500 exp, 1000 exp 1200 exp and 1300 exp?
Versus
What is the damage of your sweep at 1390 exp vs someone at 500 exp, 1000 exp 1200 exp and 1300 exp?



Then maybe you will understand why the analysis given on this subject is misleading.....

FYI, The sweep rating was lower @ 1390EXP.... It was 1852HP versus ~1864@ 1100EXP.... now apply those to your list of enemy EXP...
?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

Smashbrother's Avatar


Smashbrother
01.17.2013 , 08:10 PM | #28
OMG THIS THREAD IS NEW AND REFRESHING.

This topic hasn't already been discussed to death a billion times already in the past. Nope.

Swapping out expertise for main stat/power at a 1:1 ratio is fine, but that's about it.

Use the search function next time instead of making a new thread about expertise every other day.

JenseitsvonBose's Avatar


JenseitsvonBose
01.17.2013 , 09:48 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Smashbrother View Post
Swapping out expertise for main stat/power at a 1:1 ratio is fine, but that's about it.
Actually, half the point of my post was that it's not.
Jenseitsvonbose | Gunsmoke | Mcroyal
Shortbus - Resident Tendon Blaster - "What's a CC?"

Thaladan's Avatar


Thaladan
01.17.2013 , 10:30 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Zunayson View Post
All pro non tank (TANK IN PVP LOL!) get PvE Bracer and Belt.
your comment : LOL