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New 50 switching to tank spec have some questions please

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sith Inquisitor > Assassin
New 50 switching to tank spec have some questions please

verfallen's Avatar


verfallen
01.26.2013 , 04:15 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by bbare View Post
I disagree with the use of thrash a lot, because it will ruin your force management. However, I'm interested in your theory that force pulling immune targets will still increase threat. Do you have any evidence to prove this?
It does. Used it multiple times on boss-immune targets, and got aggro from it.

As far as thrash or no thrash goes - its impossible to have a "rotation" with thrash in it that also allows shock and wither on cooldown. However, force management in linked to shielding/parrying, and sometimes you'll do enough of it to keep up your force above that. When that happens you use thrash.

But I agree, a cost reduction on shock somewhere in the tree would be nice, since we do miss out on energize procs, but mostly the "proccing" shock off cd is a false bonus in longer fight, since your force cannot sustain it.

Eternalnight's Avatar


Eternalnight
01.28.2013 , 04:02 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by ipagex View Post

For rotation check out this amazing site:
http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/sith...-and-cooldowns
Please do not call Noxxic.com amazing site (unless by amazing you mean amazingly stupid)

Now granted, if you look just the first part of the rotations there, it is fairly good and can be of some good help for someone new to the class, but that is all.

I would not recommend Noxxic.com for anyone ever.

Almost everything else they say about assassin tanks is completely wrong!
(and every single guide for every class contains noteworthy mistakes)

Their stat priority especially when it comes to the values you should get each stat is terribly wrong, not even anywhere near what they should be.
(You should rather go for something more like: 30% defense, 45% shield chance (that is 65 with dark ward up) and 60% absorption, and not the ridiculous numbers Noxxic gives you which are just copy pasted from other classes guides that have different priorities (although the numbers are not correct for other classes either.))

Their explanation about how accuracy rating works is completely wrong.
(in reality ops bosses or any pve mobs do not avoid force/tech attacks with their defense chance (the special attacks that can be defended are melee/ranged special attacks, not force/tech attacks) so accuracy does not benefit force/tech abilities at all. And the optimal accuracy for tanks is 0, not 330 like noxxic falsely claims)

Even on the rotations and cooldowns pages there are few epic fail mistakes
(such as listing Force Cloak + Force Shroud together as if those abilities were somehow supposed to be used together which is just stupid. Force Shroud is one of your best defensive cooldowns if used at the right time, making you immune to all force/tech damage, but you can't use Force Cloak at the same time as that would just cause the tank to loose aggro and fail. Threat reduction abilities should not even be listed for tanks as survivability cooldowns. Force Cloak as a tank is only useful for few rare special situations for things like refreshing those medpacks that can otherwise be used only once per combat)

ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
01.28.2013 , 08:12 AM | #13
Read my guide! I've tested and gone over all my information there. It is correct.

You don't want to heavily rely on thrash, this will kill your force management, lower your dps, and lower your healing done over the course of a fight.

Also, Force Pull DOES indeed generate threat. It generates 5152 threat regardless of gear.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=591132

That is the assassin version of my guide.
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tXHereticXt's Avatar


tXHereticXt
01.29.2013 , 06:25 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by HoboWithAStick View Post
Use force pull on the way into combat (even on bosses)
I always saved Force Pull for desperate matters when a mob decides to break. But that was just me and my little attempt at reinventing a versatile chain that I was comfortable with.

Grogget's Avatar


Grogget
01.29.2013 , 11:28 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
What good is duplicity for a tank? I mean, how often do you maul to make it worth the points?
For 23/1/17, its worth the one point in there, especially after the changes. Before, it would only seem to proc from using Saber Strike or Discharge, now it has a chance to proc on almost any attack: Thrash, Shock, Force Lightning. Keep in mind, this is from a purely PVP standpoint. In PVE, if you're the tank, the mob ALWAYS faces you unless its stunned, so you don't ever really have a chance to use Maul.
Rhetorical - Sith Assassin - The Shadowlands - Domination
SWTOR Youtube for PVP

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
01.29.2013 , 11:43 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by HoboWithAStick View Post
Trash should be used allot as a sin tank to proc your auto crit shock. That being said you should be using wither and discharge off cooldown and should always be working towards 3 stacks of harness darkness for the awesome channeled heal from force lightening. That being said just like every SIN spec in the game you should be using the free attack when you are below 20 force.
No.

Thrash is a TPS and DPS loss.

It should ONLY ever be used when you're going to be wasting Force regen (e.g. Wither, Shock and Discharge on CD, less than 3 stacks of HD, single target, and Force at ~70).

You maximize DPS, TPS, and survival by just using Shock and Wither on CD to build 3 stacks of Harnessed Darkness ASAP, filling in empty GCDs with Saber Strike (except in the above corner case), and using Force Lightning immediately upon reaching 3 stacks.

Using Thrash is so Force-negative that you'll wind up delaying your use of Force Lightning to hunt for Energize procs, and Thrash doesn't do enough damage to justify using on its own. Consider Energize procs happy accidents when you're trying to avoid wasting Force regen, and don't make any effort to make them happen.

So basically, priority winds up looking like:
Dark Ward (if 1 stack remains, or remaining duration = ~1s)
Force Lightning (with 3 stacks of Harnessed Darkness)
Discharge (to maintain debuff)
Wither (on CD, basically)
Shock (on CD, basically)
Thrash (Shock, Wither, Discharge on CD, <3 stacks of HD, >= 70 Force)
Saber Strike

Under ordinary circumstances you'll toggle between Shock > Wither > Shock > FL and Wither > Shock > Wither > FL, averaging one FL about every 12s (the two patterns build HD at differing rates).

Quote: Originally Posted by Eternalnight View Post
Please do not call Noxxic.com amazing site (unless by amazing you mean amazingly stupid)

Now granted, if you look just the first part of the rotations there, it is fairly good and can be of some good help for someone new to the class, but that is all.

I would not recommend Noxxic.com for anyone ever.

Almost everything else they say about assassin tanks is completely wrong!
(and every single guide for every class contains noteworthy mistakes)
This. This so hard.

Noxxic is a terrible resource, and does little except to get new players onto a path of mediocrity.

Not a single one of their guides is accurate or describes how any class should gear, spec, or play.

It was put together by a bunch of scrubs too dumb to know they're scrubs, based on oudated information, and no effort has been made to update anything on that site based on any empirical evidence, theorycrafting, or evolving metagame.

Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
What good is duplicity for a tank? I mean, how often do you maul to make it worth the points?
Worthless in PVE, definitely worth a point in PVP when you can actually circle dance.

There's really no reason to ever deviate from the standard 31/0/10 build at 50 for PVE tanking.
Srs'bsns, Deposer of the Dread Masters
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"
GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk

Omophorus's Avatar


Omophorus
01.29.2013 , 11:45 AM | #17
Derp, i fail
Srs'bsns, Deposer of the Dread Masters
"This is why we don't bring Assassin tanks"
GM of <Proper Villains> of The Ebon Hawk

ckoneful's Avatar


ckoneful
01.29.2013 , 07:21 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by tXHereticXt View Post
I always saved Force Pull for desperate matters when a mob decides to break. But that was just me and my little attempt at reinventing a versatile chain that I was comfortable with.
Use it throughout the fight so that doesn't happen. Also, Shadows create sickening amounts of threat and really shouldn't be losing aggro anyways and that's what taunts are made for.
73% Explorer60% Achiever53% Socializer13% Killer
55 Juggernaut 55 Operative 50 Mercenary 45 Sorceror
11 Sentinel 50 Gunslinger 52 Vanguard 55 Shadow
83% of Class Stories completed